View Poll Results: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

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  • Yes, it was.

    34 45.95%
  • No, it wasn't.

    40 54.05%
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Thread: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

  1. #21
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    What are these principles that are exclusively Christian?
    I can't think of any.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



  2. #22
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    idea Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    The USA was not founded on Christian principles. Most of the people of the USA were basically christians of one type or another, but the USA was created by the Constitution. If there was no Constitution, there would be no USA.

    We would probably be a small bunch of Nation states created by the seperate13 colonies of the USA. With a long history of fighting each other. We are a nation founded on Laws and bonded by the Bill Of Rights. Now we can belong to any religion we choose and we can choose not to believe in God if we choose. This stuff was debated hotly at the Constitutional Convention.

    Constitutional Topic: The Constitutional Convention - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

    "the constitutional convention" - Google Search

    During the colonial times each colony was a seperate government and not bonded to its neighbor. Great Britain tied the colonies together in a loose federation, under the leadership and the protection of the Crown.

    Many colonies had forms of freedom of choice in religion, but not all. For instance, Virginia had a state sponsored religion, based on the Church Of England. There were many types of church organizations in the colonies, from Quackers to Catholics.

    The freedom of Religion Clause gave us an end religious strife, and domination by one church. We can be a member of any church that we choose. Legally there is no one Correct church. We were spared much of the religious strife that happened in Europe during 17 and 18th centuries.

    God Bless America, God Bless our wonderful Constitution and our country.
    May the lord bless us and protect us.
    These things I ask in the name of Jesus Christ. AMEN

  3. #23
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    This whole question begs the question:

    What Are Christian Principles?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Giving Christianity the authorship of these principles (that some seem to be suggesting are from Christianity) is like giving the makers of Dr. Thunder (Dr. Thunder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) the authorship of Dr. Pepper.

    It doesn't work like that. You cannot play with time in that manner.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonslayer View Post
    The USA was not founded on Christian principles. Most of the people of the USA were basically christians of one type or another, but the USA was created by the Constitution. If there was no Constitution, there would be no USA.

    We would probably be a small bunch of Nation states created by the seperate13 colonies of the USA. With a long history of fighting each other. We are a nation founded on Laws and bonded by the Bill Of Rights. Now we can belong to any religion we choose and we can choose not to believe in God if we choose. This stuff was
    Quote Originally Posted by dragonslayer View Post
    debated hotly at the Constitutional Convention.

    Constitutional Topic: The Constitutional Convention - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

    "the constitutional convention" - Google Search

    During the colonial times each colony was a seperate government and not bonded to its neighbor. Great Britain tied the colonies together in a loose federation, under the leadership and the protection of the Crown.

    Many colonies had forms of freedom of choice in religion, but not all. For instance, Virginia had a state sponsored religion, based on the Church Of England. There were many types of church organizations in the colonies, from Quackers to Catholics.

    The freedom of Religion Clause gave us an end religious strife, and domination by one church. We can be a member of any church that we choose. Legally there is no one Correct church. We were spared much of the religious strife that happened in Europe during 17 and 18th centuries.

    God Bless America, God Bless our wonderful Constitution and our country.
    May the lord bless us and protect us.
    These things I ask in the name of Jesus Christ. AMEN
    Weeks before the Constitutional Convention convened in 1787 Congress adopted the Northwest Ordinance, which stated: “Religion, morality, and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.” These words were reenacted by the First Congress under the Constitution and made it clear that the Founders found the propagation of “religion” and “morality” to of such importance that they should the primary purpose of schooling in the United States. The Northwest Ordinance is considered part of America’s “Organic Law” and is second only to the Declaration of Independence in its importance as a legal document. It requires Christianity to be taught by the newly-admitted states in their schools. Language from the Ordinance is found in state constitutions for the next 100 years.
    Northwest Ordinance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Yet modern opinion would have us believe that ALL of this is a violation of the First Amendment! Also the founders and legislators that enacted all of this were unaware that they were getting so much so wrong.

    Less than twenty four hours after Congress approved the First Amendment, they passed the following resolution: “Resolved, That a joint committee of both Houses be directed to wait upon the President of the United States to request that he would recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a Constitution of government for their safety and happiness.” In the proclamation announcing the “day of thanksgiving and prayer” that Congress had requested, President Washington declared November 26 “to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be.”

    I guess it never occurred to the First Congress that their call for public prayer would conflict with the amendment they had adopted twenty four hours earlier prohibiting “an establishment of religion.”doh!

    And the constitution was NOT based upon Christian principals? Right.
    Last edited by Sir Loin; 01-29-09 at 02:59 AM.

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Giving Christianity the authorship of these principles (that some seem to be suggesting are from Christianity) is like giving the makers of Dr. Thunder (Dr. Thunder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) the authorship of Dr. Pepper.

    It doesn't work like that. You cannot play with time in that manner.
    You're right, it does not work like that. This is a pretty complex issue with plenty of well researched literature and material to use or argue with. None of yourpost thus far even begin to approach any sense of debate.
    Last edited by Sir Loin; 01-29-09 at 03:10 AM.

  7. #27
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    I doesn't matter who added, or when it was added. Congress voted on it with the Barlow interpretations, including the plausibly atheist wording of Article XI
    You vote on the treaty that is signed, in this case the Arabic version, not the translation, which is NOT authoritative.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    A lot of people can say what they want. That doesn't rule out that there could be Article XI in the original Arabic version.

    If the treaty specifically states a certain version of a treaty is the authoritative version of said treaty, then you are right.

    But none of that occurred then. The English translation is what they read, heard, ratified, and signed. They did not know the contents of the Arabic version.
    But if there were to be a dispute in the execution of the treaty, as it was the Arabic version that was negotiated and signed, it would have been the Arabic version (just as the Treaty of Tunis was in Turkish) that would have been authoritative.

    There is obviously enough dispute over the inclusion of Article 11 in the actual treaty for it to no longer go unquestioned in this forum, as it so often has. The language of the Treaty of Paris (1783) is both more definate and included in a far more important foundation document of the United States.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by ruserious View Post
    Very much so. When the United States was founded I do not think that Christian principals were quite understood the way when understand them today and also they had to deal with much more hardships.
    I agree with this. When we say "Christian Principles", that does NOT necessarily mean the same thing that Christian evangelicals today claim it does.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    ehhh...whatever...

    Benjamin Franklin:
    "As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his religion...has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble."
    --The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin, by Benjamin Franklin (Dover 1996)


    Thomas Paine:
    "I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, nor by any church that I know of... Each of those churches accuse the other of unbeliefe [sic]; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
    --from The Age of Reason

    "It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it as I detest everything that is cruel."

    John Adams, the 2nd Constitutional President:
    Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been upon the point of breaking out, 'This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!'"
    (John Adams, A Biography in His Own Words)


    "We can never be so certain of any Prophecy or the fulfillment of any Prophecy; or of any miracle as We are, from the recelation of nature i.e. natures God that two and two are equal to four. Miracles or Prophecies might frighten Us out of our Witts; might scare us to death; might induce Us to lie, to say that We believe that 2 and 2 make 5. But We should not believe it. We should know the contrary."
    -- The Adams-Jefferson Letters, ed. Lester Cappon (Chapel Hill 1959)


    "the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."
    John Adams, from the Treaty of Peace and Friendship (Article XI)


    Thomas Jefferson:
    "I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian."

    "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

    "The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
    --from Notes on Virginia, 1784


    James Madison, fourth president of the U.S.:

    If Religion be not within the cognizance of Civil Government how can its legal establishment be necessary to Civil Government? What influence in fact have ecclesiastical establishments had on Civil Society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people.
    --Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments


    "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
    --Letter to William Bradford

    "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious I am no Christian." (Reason, the Only Oracle of Man, by Ethan Allen)

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