View Poll Results: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

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  • Yes, it was.

    34 45.95%
  • No, it wasn't.

    40 54.05%
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Thread: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

  1. #171
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    But it wouldn't have been found in the mainline Christians of the founding fathers, would it?
    Unless, as I suspect, they weren't as mainline Christians as one would assume. They were well-educated men who had a sense to cater to Humanity before they catered to their God. Or in some instances, cater to their god by catering to humanity?
    Even if this is accurate, what we believe, 200+ year later is no where near as important as what they used as the foundation for their principles. They used their Christian beliefs, and those morals.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #172
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Our country was founded on a government which answers to men who in turn answer to God.

    Since the principal 'you need no mediator between you and God' is inherently religious, the resulting mandate for a secular government is also religious.
    I see what you are saying. Religion is a personal issue. Though I tend to disagree that the lack of a need for a mediator automatically makes a secular govt. a prescription from religion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



  3. #173
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Even if this is accurate, what we believe, 200+ year later is no where near as important as what they used as the foundation for their principles. They used their Christian beliefs, and those morals.
    Thats a good thought. A lovely hypothesis... that our founding fathers were that far ahead of their congregation when it comes to religious toleration. This thread is doing nothing more than celebrating our founding fathers-- and as a humanist-type it's fantastic.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Thats a good thought. A lovely hypothesis... that our founding fathers were that far ahead of their congregation when it comes to religious toleration. This thread is doing nothing more than celebrating our founding fathers-- and as a humanist-type it's fantastic.
    And to some extent, you're probably correct. One of the reasons that, in historical context, when founded, the US was such a forward-thinking anomaly.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #175
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Thats a good thought. A lovely hypothesis... that our founding fathers were that far ahead of their congregation when it comes to religious toleration. This thread is doing nothing more than celebrating our founding fathers-- and as a humanist-type it's fantastic.

    It was not that they were that far ahead as it was more to being experienced in the religious persecutions of Europe. They wanted to avoid this in the new government that they were forming. No religious entities making and breaking alliances or granting special privileges to elected officials, Appointing or impeaching an elected official etc. It is nothing more than another part of the checks and balances in our system that keeps any one person party or power from seizing complete control of our government.

    Moe

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And...you are wrong. To me, the OP question was vague. It is not for you to tell me that it is not. Your understanding of the context of the question is different from mine. Your opinion on the vagueness of the OP, in the context of my perception is irrelevant. Too often I have seen vague OP's either be used as a way to direct a discussion in a slanted way, or to create misinterpretation because of the lack of clarity. I like to be aware of what I am responding to, before I respond. And the fact that there are several here that wanted clarification is more evidence that you are wrong. Jerry has sufficiently answered my questions and clarified things so I can respond appropriately. That's all I needed. I wonder what the agenda surrounding your attacks is.
    Well quite a few people were able to immediately see the question and discern that it seemed to be about were the principals secular or Christian. But as you say it could all be down to personal interpretation. Though I note after asking your questions, you have arrived at the same answer that I and others started providing, on the first page of the thread. I guess some of us are just quicker than others.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    It is not trolling to request clarification. It may be trolling, however, to attack those who request it.

    Oh touché! My agenda is really pretty simple though. There are some posters here at DP who routinely pop into threads and rather than engage in a discussion or the topic of the thread, do all sorts of other things. They “ask” questions and make jokes but very little else. Sometimes when you look through a thread, you notice that aside from one liners and “questions” these same posters never manage to actually do anything aside from that. Ask “questions” and joke, thread after thread.

    There is a word for that and it is called lazy. I also find troll is commonly attached to this behavior as well. Nes pa? So if one wants to see a perfect example of lazy they need only look through this thread. Notice how even at this late point in the thread some here still can’t manage to do more than imitate a Romper Room doo-bee. Why is the sky blue? Why is the grass green? What is chlorophyll? Jesus……………..all puns intended.

    By the way IT, what ever else you do don’t dare address the OP or bravely explain your answer to the question. This sitting on the sidelines aint all that impressive, but it is transparently easy. You got a frakin opinion on the topic here at a opinion debate website? Then why not put on a cup and come on out on the playing field?

    Anyone else need me to clarify not so secret agenda here?

  7. #177
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin View Post

    Well quite a few people were able to immediately see the question and discern that it seemed to be about were the principals secular or Christian. But as you say it could all be down to personal interpretation. Though I note after asking your questions, you have arrived at the same answer that I and others started providing, on the first page of the thread. I guess some of us are just quicker than others.


    Oh touché! My agenda is really pretty simple though. There are some posters here at DP who routinely pop into threads and rather than engage in a discussion or the topic of the thread, do all sorts of other things. They “ask” questions and make jokes but very little else. Sometimes when you look through a thread, you notice that aside from one liners and “questions” these same posters never manage to actually do anything aside from that. Ask “questions” and joke, thread after thread.

    There is a word for that and it is called lazy. I also find troll is commonly attached to this behavior as well. Nes pa? So if one wants to see a perfect example of lazy they need only look through this thread. Notice how even at this late point in the thread some here still can’t manage to do more than imitate a Romper Room doo-bee. Why is the sky blue? Why is the grass green? What is chlorophyll? Jesus……………..all puns intended.

    By the way IT, what ever else you do don’t dare address the OP or bravely explain your answer to the question. This sitting on the sidelines aint all that impressive, but it is transparently easy. You got a frakin opinion on the topic here at a opinion debate website? Then why not put on a cup and come on out on the playing field?

    Anyone else need me to clarify not so secret agenda here?
    I know exactly what you're talking about and I share your frustration.

    Those actions are trolling. However, those actions are not moderatable. They fall within the lighter side of the gray aria between pure debate and pure flame.

    The best and possibly only way to deal with such tolling is to ignore it and/or return the trolling in kind. Counter a question by questioning the question. Counter an irrelevant and distracting joke with random humor not related to anything at all.

    Since the trolling was not hostile, addressing it with hostility will only earn YOU points.

    In short, you're right, and there's nothing any mod can ever do about it so you're on your own.

  8. #178
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    I am still not entirely sure what trolling is.

    I left the world of the internets for a few years and this new term appears.

    I don't think it was used here at DP in the early-era
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I know exactly what you're talking about and I share your frustration.

    Those actions are trolling. However, those actions are not moderatable. They fall within the lighter side of the gray aria between pure debate and pure flame.

    The best and possibly only way to deal with such tolling is to ignore it and/or return the trolling in kind. Counter a question by questioning the question. Counter an irrelevant and distracting joke with random humor not related to anything at all.

    Since the trolling was not hostile, addressing it with hostility will only earn YOU points.

    In short, you're right, and there's nothing any mod can ever do about it so you're on your own.

    Well this is not my first rodeo and I have put in plenty of MOD time. The MODs here might not do anything about it but I’ve seen plenty of boards that is not the case at. I frequent one now, where if you have a trolling pattern you get to correct it or go bye bye. And there is something we can all do about it, call it out when we see it. Sometimes you see the pattern and make it a DM and try to channel the trollery to the appropriate place in the forum too, I guess. Clearly that did not work, so I’ll just call a troll a troll.

  10. #180
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Loin View Post
    Well this is not my first rodeo and I have put in plenty of MOD time. The MODs here might not do anything about it but I’ve seen plenty of boards that is not the case at. I frequent one now, where if you have a trolling pattern you get to correct it or go bye bye. And there is something we can all do about it, call it out when we see it. Sometimes you see the pattern and make it a DM and try to channel the trollery to the appropriate place in the forum too, I guess. Clearly that did not work, so I’ll just call a troll a troll.
    When you call out a troll, you give them what they want and further sew seeds of division amongst members on this board. How about we try not to let an internet website get the best of us? Seems logical to me.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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