View Poll Results: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

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  • Yes, it was.

    34 45.95%
  • No, it wasn't.

    40 54.05%
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Thread: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    So,
    I guess we can all agree on that they were founded on a belief pre-text, possibly even religious.
    Almost. The were founded on a belief pre-text, one that transends many different belief systems. In this case, the system that was used to utilize those principles was Christianity.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    It's because our country was founded on a government made of men that answers to men, not a government that is beholden to a higher power. That is what democratic republic is.
    IT, I think part of your confusion, and part of mine, initially, was whether or not the principles discussed where an adherence to God. I think it has been made clear that they are not. The principles we are discussing can come from a number of belief systems, some theist, some not. In this case, they came from a theist belief system, but were separated out from theism.
    Last edited by CaptainCourtesy; 01-31-09 at 09:14 PM.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    It's because our country was founded on a government made of men that answers to men, not a government that is beholden to a higher power. That is what democratic republic is.
    Our country was founded on a government which answers to men who in turn answer to God.

    Since the principal 'you need no mediator between you and God' is inherently religious, the resulting mandate for a secular government is also religious.
    Last edited by Jerry; 01-31-09 at 09:24 PM.

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    IT, I think part of your confusion, and part of mine, initially, was whether or not the principles discussed where an adherence to God. I think it has been made clear that they are not. The principles we are discussing can come from a number of belief systems, some theist, some not. In this case, they came from a theist belief system, but were separated out from theism.
    I get what you are saying. But at the very core principle, democracy, I don't see how that is a Christian principle. Now if we are talking inherent rights, then yes, they pointed to those coming from God. That is a whole other debate though as it takes a govt. to enforce them.
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Those men you speak of disagree with you, though.
    Didn't they have to? What happened to heretics back then and who would follow them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



  6. #166
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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Almost. The were founded on a belief pre-text, one that transends many different belief systems. In this case, the system that was used to utilize those principles was Christianity.
    hmmmm

    It seems more likely that it was humanism, philanthropy, more then Christian. As it is geared for religious toleration--not the emphasis on the god of Abraham.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    I get what you are saying. But at the very core principle, democracy, I don't see how that is a Christian principle. Now if we are talking inherent rights, then yes, they pointed to those coming from God. That is a whole other debate though as it takes a govt. to enforce them.
    That's a good question. As this debate has progressed, I believe that we are discussing individual rights, though the religious freedom of some of those that came here from Europe can certainly be looked at as a democratic principle.

    And as far as enforcement goes, you are correct. However, that is far less about principle, the concept around the OP, and more about management, as you said, an entirely different debate.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Didn't they have to? What happened to heretics back then and who would follow them?
    I edited while you posted.

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    hmmmm

    It seems more likely that it was humanism, philanthropy, more then Christian. As it is geared for religious toleration--not the emphasis on the god of Abraham.
    The qualities you mentioned are parts of several less dogmatic Christian sects. Quakerism is one that comes to mind. Remember, religious toleration is not only found in humanism. Many of the less extreme sects of the worlds religions are tolerant of other religions.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The qualities you mentioned are parts of several less dogmatic Christian sects. Quakerism is one that comes to mind. Remember, religious toleration is not only found in humanism. Many of the less extreme sects of the worlds religions are tolerant of other religions.

    But it wouldn't have been found in the mainline Christians of the founding fathers, would it?
    Unless, as I suspect, they weren't as mainline Christians as one would assume. They were well-educated men who had a sense to cater to Humanity before they catered to their God. Or in some instances, cater to their god by catering to humanity?
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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