View Poll Results: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

Voters
74. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, it was.

    34 45.95%
  • No, it wasn't.

    40 54.05%
Page 15 of 22 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 213

Thread: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

  1. #141
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 11:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Dude are you serious?

    Are you trying to claim that the laws of the old testament do not pertain to you because you don't live in Israel?
    I'm claiming that the specific law you quoted only applies in Israel, yes.

    Even assuming that we were in Israel, Jesus has since died in that woman's place, so she need not be stoned.
    Last edited by Jerry; 01-31-09 at 06:17 PM.

  2. #142
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 11:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    You know what. I am going to go along and play with your idea of specifics with in the Bible.

    Paul/Saul was a Jew. Sosthenes was a Jew. Corinth was a "strong Jewish nucleus".

    Therefore YOU, my friend, are not a part of "our". Therefore, Christ did not die for you, so you are wasting your time.
    That post belongs on a diferent thread.

  3. #143
    Familiaist


    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Last Seen
    09-26-12 @ 12:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    7,470

    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Ok, lube up.....

    United States


    United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    United Nations member states - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And the last humiliation I'll make you suffer on this post:
    The Pledge of Allegiance to the United States Flag


    ***
    That issue is now at rest. I will no longer entertain the idea that the US is not a nation. Please accept correction and proceed with the greater argument on Christian motivations.
    You still fail to adhere to the general consent of Political Science, instead your strapped to your dictionaries, as if they were more credible then God herself.

    1) I don't pledge allegiance, because they have bastardized the Pledge with the insinuation that God exists (again, another debate).

    2) Most political scientists agree (if not all) that a Nation is a group of individuals with a common culture. A State/Country refers to a territory, or it could be referring to the actual government for the territory.

    There can be MULTIPLE nations within a STATE. but not MULTIPLE STATES within a NATION. I know you are going to use the "but but but but but there's many states within the United States" however, each state is disenfranchised as working outside the confines of the Federal government, i.e. they cannot make treaties. So they are the arms and legs of the federal government.

    You gave me the dictionary definition of the term (EUROPEAN TERM) of United States, however besides the obvious problem with the term not actually referring to the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (which only has the term nation in it for Wikipedia. you know that great word-wide database that can be edited by everyone, and most professors do not allow it as a credible source) the implication that the United States is a nation is the implication that I share a similar culture with someone from.. let's say.... Texas.

    Let me give you a real world example: I have a friend who lived a few miles away from me back in my hometown. He lived in a more urban setting, Durham, and he was black. According to your little definition, he and I are a part of the "Nation" that we "share common culture, etc." That's not true. I celebrate Christmas, he celebrates Hanukkah . I live in a post-industrial revolution family structure. His entire family lives with him. English is my first language, English is his second. We are both American. We both live in the same country, however our cultures are completely different.

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.globalpolicy.org/nations/nation/index.htm
    A nation is a large group of people with strong bonds of identity - an "imagined community," a tribe on a grand scale. The nation may have a claim to statehood or self-rule, but it does not necessarily enjoy a state of its own. National identity is typically based on shared culture, religion, history, language or ethnicity, though disputes arise as to who is truly a member of the national community or even whether the "nation" exists at all (do you have to speak French to be Québécois? are Wales and Tibet nations?). Nations seem so compelling, so "real," and so much a part of the political and cultural landscape, that people think they have lasted forever. In reality, they come into being and dissolve with changing historical circumstances - sometimes over a relatively short period of time, like Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia.
    The concept of Nations is absolutely new.

    Reply, as now I am completely absent-minded to what we were arguing in the first place.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  4. #144
    Bus Driver to Hell
    Thorgasm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:36 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    66,689

    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Well now I fail completely to understand why anyone is asking about exclusively Christian principals.
    Because unless otherwise stated, it could just be a logical principle.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The 10 commandments are not restrictions on God whereas the amendments are restrictions on government.

    Commandment 1 is telling you to do something, Amendment 1 is not.

    Commandment 1 places an obligation on you personally, Amendment 1 does not.

    And besides, I don't see God stopping anyone from worshiping other gods, do you? Ever notice that the 10 Commandments to not proscribe a punishment? There's a reason for that, but I digress.
    I thought we were discussing principles. Either a man can is permitted to worship as he pleases or he isn't. That is the principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



  5. #145
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 11:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Because unless otherwise stated, it could just be a logical principle.
    You and I can agree that murder is wrong, even if we each arrive at that shared opinion though completely different and mutually exclusive rationales.

    It is the rational for the principal which makes the principal Christian. Another rational would make the same principal Buddhist, a 3rd rational would make the same principal atheist, etc.

    Christianity, not Buddhism or secularism, is the chief agent of socialization which bound the founding fathers together in their reasoning and rational.

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    I thought we were discussing principles. Either a man can is permitted to worship as he pleases or he isn't. That is the principle.
    From one authority Man is, from another authority Man is not.

    You are comparing apples and oranges when you compare amendments and commandments.
    Last edited by Jerry; 01-31-09 at 07:20 PM.

  6. #146
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 11:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Reply, as now I am completely absent-minded to what we were arguing in the first place.
    That pretty much summarizes your contribution to this thread: tangents, irrelevant trivia, unsourced claims and a lack of a cohesive structure leading to an orderly proof of an argument.

    I never knew what your overall point was supposed to be, so welcome to the club.

  7. #147
    Familiaist


    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Last Seen
    09-26-12 @ 12:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    7,470

    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That pretty much summarizes your contribution to this thread: tangents, irrelevant trivia, unsourced claims and a lack of a cohesive structure leading to an orderly proof of an argument.

    I never knew what your overall point was supposed to be, so welcome to the club.
    And yet you still can't debunk the proposition that the United States is a federal government system, where multiple nations live-- which is what I believe.

    You seem to believe that there is a single nation within the United States, and that was the nation that evolved into a Christian one.

    I don't understand how you get this.

    I think you are blind to the diversity.
    I'm curious, what would you say about Canada is there a large-scale Canadian nation, and if so how do you rectify that statement?
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  8. #148
    Familiaist


    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Last Seen
    09-26-12 @ 12:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    7,470

    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    You and I can agree that murder is wrong, even if we each arrive at that shared opinion though completely different and mutually exclusive rationales.

    It is the rational for the principal which makes the principal Christian. Another rational would make the same principal Buddhist, a 3rd rational would make the same principal atheist, etc.

    Christianity, not Buddhism or secularism, is the chief agent of socialization which bound the founding fathers together in their reasoning and rational.
    Those are universal principles found within every culture. You are not born into a religion as you are born into a culture; you are not Christian until you have accepted Christ.
    So, truthfully, the founding fathers got these ideals of principles not through their religious beliefs but from an identity that is transcendent through all human cultures. You are giving credit to religion, when it is not religion but a basic HUMAN principle that is giving one these ideals.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

  9. #149
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 11:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    And yet you still can't debunk the proposition that the United States is a federal government system, where multiple nations live-- which is what I believe.

    You seem to believe that there is a single nation within the United States, and that was the nation that evolved into a Christian one.

    I don't understand how you get this.

    I think you are blind to the diversity.
    I'm curious, what would you say about Canada is there a large-scale Canadian nation, and if so how do you rectify that statement?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The government is secular, but the nation as a whole was and is Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Those are universal principles found within every culture. You are not born into a religion as you are born into a culture; you are not Christian until you have accepted Christ.
    So, truthfully, the founding fathers got these ideals of principles not through their religious beliefs but from an identity that is transcendent through all human cultures. You are giving credit to religion, when it is not religion but a basic HUMAN principle that is giving one these ideals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Every time an atheist says 'it's wrong to murder' they are evidencing the universality the moral core every healthy human shares.....and the truth of scripture, ironicly.

    (this is the exact passage I was referring to in that post)

    13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)
    For the life of me I don't see where we disagree.
    Last edited by Jerry; 01-31-09 at 08:31 PM.

  10. #150
    Familiaist


    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Last Seen
    09-26-12 @ 12:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    7,470

    Re: Was the United States founded on Christian principles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    For the life of me I don't see where we disagree.
    I guess it's just on labels. I don't think it is right (but def. not fully incorrect) to label America as being founded by principles of Christianity. I think it is more accurate for it to be labeled as a country founded on the basic, good-willed, principles of Man.

    I'm a humanist, fully philanthropic, so I put humans before god.

    You are a Christian.

    I think that's where we differ?
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

Page 15 of 22 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •