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Thread: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

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    Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Conservatives want maximum control to remain where the Constitution placed it-at the state and local level, where the individual has maximum control over his own affairs and community. This is a core, identifying principle of our founding regularly under assault by liberals.

    There is now a Constitutional Amendment to ban state governors from appointing Senators. It may very well be inappropriate for Senate vacancies to be filled this way, but according to everything we're supposed to stand for, that is a matter for individual states to decide, not something states are supposed to have dictated to them by completely unaccountable ivory tower elites in Washington.

    So the question is, should the federal government even be considering such an Amendment?
    Last edited by aquapub; 01-26-09 at 08:09 AM.
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    idea Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    The constitution has been under fire all through the Reagan year and the George Bush years.

    Look at this terrible expensive war, which benefits nothing to the USA.
    Look at our horrible national debt the greatest in history. We are partially owned by China now. All thanks to Bush.

    We are holding thousands of people without a trial, which the constitution is against. We are losing our freedom of our 1st Amendment, Bush hated it when we the people of the USA did not agree with him while he f***ed up everything

    The GOP has practically destroyed the united States and you make the dumb statement that the Constitution is under attack from Liberals. Take your head from the sand and start looking around.

    The GOP is not what it use to be. I was registered and an active Republican until the second term of Reagan. The hand writing was on the wall and it was filling the Walls with BS. Conservative use to be something to be proud of. What the heck is happening to America? It is like watching a many years long bad movie in the television, which started with Reagan.

    American will not be ruled by Corporate CEO dictator no matter how much Bush and his buddies want this.

    We live in a world where Liberals have become the traditional conservatives and the GOP has become radicalized to the extreme.

    We need to abandon the World Trade Organization, and NAFTA, and start taking care of Americans and America.

    God Bless America, and protect us from the Evil of the Radicalized Right Wingers.
    Last edited by dragonslayer; 01-26-09 at 08:34 AM.

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    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    Conservatives want maximum control to remain where the Constitution placed it-at the state and local level, where the individual has maximum control over his own affairs and community. This is a core, identifying principle of our founding regularly under assault by liberals.

    There is now a Constitutional Amendment to ban state governors from appointing Senators. It may very well be inappropriate for Senate vacancies to be filled this way, but according to everything we're supposed to stand for, that is a matter for individual states to decide, not something states are supposed to have dictated to them by completely unaccountable ivory tower elites in Washington.

    So the question is, should the federal government even be considering such an Amendment?
    Sure, they should consider it. Senators hold a FEDERAL office, not a STATE office, so the federal government is well within its rights to determine how senators should be selected. Besides, the whole point of a constitutional amendment is to amend the Constitution, so arguing that it violates the principles of the Constitution doesn't make sense.

    With that said, I think it would be a bad idea to actually ratify this proposed amendment. Under normal circumstances, I wouldn't have a problem with banning governors from appointing the vacancies since it should be up to the people IMO...but what happens if someone blows up the Capitol Building and kills everyone inside? In an emergency, I think governors should be able to appoint replacements.
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    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Sure, they should consider it. Senators hold a FEDERAL office, not a STATE office, so the federal government is well within its rights to determine how senators should be selected.
    As is standard with liberals, your "make up whatever I feel like" bastardization of the Constitution is demonstrably erroneous. See the 10th Amendment. The Constitution is a strict enumeration of powers. What is not included in it is off-limits to the federal government to decide. Nowhere does it include any mention of dictating to the states how to fill vacancies.

    Try again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Besides, the whole point of a constitutional amendment is to amend the Constitution, so arguing that it violates the principles of the Constitution doesn't make sense.
    Arguing against an Amendment that would perpetuate the outright reversal of everything the Constitution is supposed to stand for doesn't make sense? Nice counterpoint.
    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner (paraphrasing James Bovard).

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    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    As is standard with liberals, your "make up whatever I feel like" bastardization of the Constitution is demonstrably erroneous. See the 10th Amendment. The Constitution is a strict enumeration of powers. What is not included in it is off-limits to the federal government to decide. Nowhere does it include any mention of dictating to the states how to fill vacancies.

    Try again.
    OK, I'll try again: The purpose of a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT is to AMEND the CONSTITUTION. If they wanted to, they could make an amendment abolishing the concept of statehood altogether, or dissolving the US government, or calling George Bush a poopyhead. And that would be entirely legal. There are no restrictions on what kind of amendments can be passed.

    The 10th Amendment is irrelevant, because it specifically says "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states." If this amendment was ratified, that power to appoint senators WOULD be prohibited by the Constitution to the states.

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub
    Arguing against an Amendment that would perpetuate the outright reversal of everything the Constitution is supposed to stand for doesn't make sense? Nice counterpoint.
    The Constitution already has restrictions on who can serve as a senator based on age, citizenship, and residency. The Constitution has even been amended to guarantee direct election of senators. This would hardly be an enormous leap. An "outright reversal of everything the Constitution is supposed to stand for"? Don't be such a drama queen. The day-to-day business of our government would change very little.

    This amendment is probably a bad idea, but it's ridiculous to say that the federal government should have no say over how federal offices are filled.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-26-09 at 09:19 AM.
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    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    Conservatives want maximum control to remain where the Constitution placed it-at the state and local level, where the individual has maximum control over his own affairs and community. This is a core, identifying principle of our founding regularly under assault by liberals.

    There is now a Constitutional Amendment to ban state governors from appointing Senators. It may very well be inappropriate for Senate vacancies to be filled this way, but according to everything we're supposed to stand for, that is a matter for individual states to decide, not something states are supposed to have dictated to them by completely unaccountable ivory tower elites in Washington.

    So the question is, should the federal government even be considering such an Amendment?
    The federal government can propose whatever amendment it wants, and the states, by ratifying it, can give up that power, if they want.

    Why the states would want to is beyond me...

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    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Originally Posted by aquapub
    Conservatives want maximum control to remain where the Constitution placed it-at the state and local level, where the individual has maximum control over his own affairs and community. This is a core, identifying principle of our founding regularly under assault by liberals.

    There is now a Constitutional Amendment to ban state governors from appointing Senators. It may very well be inappropriate for Senate vacancies to be filled this way, but according to everything we're supposed to stand for, that is a matter for individual states to decide, not something states are supposed to have dictated to them by completely unaccountable ivory tower elites in Washington.

    So the question is, should the federal government even be considering such an Amendment?
    I think most of you do not know how an amendment is added.

    The Road to Ratification: Amending the U.S. Constitution
    The Road to Ratification: Amending the U.S. Constitution

    The basic procedures to amend the U.S. Constitution are set forth in Article V. While the process appears simple, the road to ratification is not an easy one. In its entire history, the U.S. Constitution has been amended only 27 times. The first 10 amendments-which constitute the Bill of Rights-were added in 1791. It has been over a decade since the last amendment-Amendment XXVII-was ratified.

    An examination of the ratification process reveals the difficult hurdles that a proposed amendment must overcome to be added to the U.S. Constitution.
    Step 1. Passage by Congress

    The language of a proposed amendment to the U.S. Constitution first must be agreed upon by Congress. A two-thirds vote of both houses is required to pass the legislation proposing the amendment. Unlike most acts of Congress, a proposal for an amendment to the U.S. Constitution does not involve the President of the United States. After its passage by Congress, the proposed amendment is sent directly to the Office of Federal Register at the National Archives. (Note: Usually, a bill goes first to the White House for the President’s signature or veto.)

    Step 2. Notification of the States

    Next, the states must be notified of the passage of a proposed amendment to the U.S. Constitution. This process is:

    1. After the legislation proposing a constitutional amendment is passed by Congress, it is sent to the National Archives.
    2. The national archivist prepares certified copies of the language of the proposed amendment for each state.
    3. A packet is sent to the governor in each state. The packet include a letter from the national archivist requesting return notification that the packet was received, the certified copies of the language, 50 slip law copies, and a form for the state to fill out if the proposed amendment is ratified.

    Step 3. Ratification by the States

    Ratification of the amendment language as adopted by Congress is an up-or-down vote in each legislative chamber. A state legislature may make no changes to the language, or its ratification is invalid.

    A state legislature that has rejected an amendment may subsequently return to it and vote affirmatively for the ratification. On the other hand, it is generally held that once a legislature has voted affirmatively, the ratification cannot be rescinded by the legislature.

    It is sometimes forgotten that “state ratification” of an amendment actually means ratification by the state legislatures. The affirmative action of a state legislature on legislation to ratify a proposed amendment to the U.S. Constitution is final. Just as the President has no formal role in proposing amendments, governors have no constitutional role in their ratification. Technically, a governor’s signature on the bill or resolution is not necessary. Often states jockey to be the first to pass a U.S. constitutional amendment, and the courts have validated legislation passed by a state legislature prior to the receipt by the governor of the certified amendment language.

    [Note: More detail about state legislative procedures to ratify a proposed amendment to the U.S. Constitution will be added shortly; the information is being updated.]

    Step 4. Tracking State Actions

    Under the U.S. Constitution, proposed amendments must be ratified by three-fourths of the states in order to take effect. The official count is kept by Office of the Federal Register at the National Archives. For each proposed amendment to the U.S. Constitution, the Office maintains an open file on state ratification and tracks states’ actions.

    If legislation ratifying the amendment is passed by a state, the legislature must return to the National Archives the following items:

    1. The enacted legislative document containing language that mirrors (is identical to) the certified text of the proposed amendment.
    2. The ratification form with the required authenticating signature(s) and title(s).

    If the language passed by a state legislature does not mirror the official text, the National Archives holds the legislative document and notifies the state. The letter sent to the state recommends that the state clarify its actions in order to avoid court challenges.

    Whenever the requisite number of states (38) have ratified a proposed amendment, the national archivist proclaims it as a new amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Actual certification is published immediately in the Federal Register and eventually in the United States Statutes-at-Large.


    Constitutional Amendments - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net
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    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    The constitution should matter... But you have politicians who could care less.

    I'll let you find out said this...

    It's just a piece of paper..
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Don't apologize to me over that silly ****. I could care less if I can see the dust or not.
    Now apologize for apologizing!

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    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonslayer View Post
    The constitution has been under fire all through the Reagan year and the George Bush years.

    Look at this terrible expensive war, which benefits nothing to the USA.
    Look at our horrible national debt the greatest in history. We are partially owned by China now. All thanks to Bush.

    We are holding thousands of people without a trial, which the constitution is against. We are losing our freedom of our 1st Amendment, Bush hated it when we the people of the USA did not agree with him while he f***ed up everything

    The GOP has practically destroyed the united States and you make the dumb statement that the Constitution is under attack from Liberals. Take your head from the sand and start looking around.

    The GOP is not what it use to be. I was registered and an active Republican until the second term of Reagan. The hand writing was on the wall and it was filling the Walls with BS. Conservative use to be something to be proud of. What the heck is happening to America? It is like watching a many years long bad movie in the television, which started with Reagan.

    American will not be ruled by Corporate CEO dictator no matter how much Bush and his buddies want this.

    We live in a world where Liberals have become the traditional conservatives and the GOP has become radicalized to the extreme.

    We need to abandon the World Trade Organization, and NAFTA, and start taking care of Americans and America.

    God Bless America, and protect us from the Evil of the Radicalized Right Wingers.
    He never said this amendment was the liberals doing. He's asking if the government should consider it. Read before posting. Just because it's aquapub doesn't mean it's always partisanship. Just mostly.
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    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shewter View Post
    The constitution should matter... But you have politicians who could care less.

    I'll let you find out said this...
    It was George Bush and he said "it's just a goddamned piece of paper".

    I don't really take much exception to that since it was said in the heat of the moment under intense questioning of his authority as commander in chief where the Patriot Act was concerned.

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