View Poll Results: Read the intro and vote accordingly

Voters
17. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes, it's the federal government's place

    3 17.65%
  • no, it's not the federal government's place

    11 64.71%
  • other

    3 17.65%
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 53

Thread: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

  1. #31
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    27,024

    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    I think that alot of people here are forgetting something.

    Our government is a 3 part system of which only one part has employees that are appointed, the rest is voted on. (except in special cases)

    Executive: President, elected every 4 years by the majority of people in the US. They elect the person that they believe reflects their desires the most.

    Legislative: Senate, House, elected every 2 years by the majority of the people in each state that they come from. They elect the person that they believe reflects their desires the most.

    Judicial: Judges of SCOTUS appointed. Serves for a life time unless they retire or are retired forcefully due to misconduct on their part. They are appointed by the very people that are elected by the citizens of the US.

    The whole point what what I just said should be evident by now. But incase it isn't...

    It is the PEOPLE that rule this country. It is the PEOPLE who guides this country in the direction that it goes. It is the PEOPLE that enable things like the Patriot Act. If we the people do not think that the person that we elect is doing the job that we want them to do then we have a right to elect someone else that does do what we want. And the new person that is elected has the right to try to get rid of any act accomplished by the previous occupant of <insert government seat here>.

    So when things don't go the direction that you thought that they would go when you elected that person then you only have yourself to blame. You're the one that put that person in office that allowed things like the Patriot Act. While yes that person is to be held accountable for their actions so do you. You let it happen. Remember that there are ways to get your voice heard without being directly in the government. And you can bet that when enough people get together something will happen.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  2. #32
    Professor
    Shewter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Puget Sound
    Last Seen
    02-21-13 @ 08:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,995

    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The outrage of the left is selective - when their people trample the constitution, they cheer it on.

    But, you knew that.
    Just so we're clear, I'm an equal opportunity hater. GWB just happens to be the most recent blunder in constitutional misrepresentation.

    <------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Don't apologize to me over that silly ****. I could care less if I can see the dust or not.
    Now apologize for apologizing!

  3. #33
    Professor
    Shewter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Puget Sound
    Last Seen
    02-21-13 @ 08:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,995

    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Problem with facts is they need to be well, facts. The government can't listen to your conversations at "any given moment". And in regards to consent, they could listen into your conversations without your consent since dating back into the 1970's and earlier.
    What the hell part of that do you think would make me feel any better about the situation?

    The Patriot act just gave them "Reason" if you will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Don't apologize to me over that silly ****. I could care less if I can see the dust or not.
    Now apologize for apologizing!

  4. #34
    Global Moderator
    Engagement!
    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    43,948

    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shewter View Post
    What the hell part of that do you think would make me feel any better about the situation?
    No clue. If one is prone to paranoia I can understand it can be a rather unnerving thought. I can also think of the extremely large amoutn of crime that has been stopped in part due to wire tapping over the past 4 decades and the thought of a large amount of those going unsolved also is a bit unnerving.

    The Patriot act just gave them "Reason" if you will.
    I'd anxiously wait to hear which section of the Patriot Act specifically just gives the government blanket reason to listen in on anyone at any time for any reason.

    The problem with Hyperbole when you're using it in a serious manner is that when you get called to actually prove it you either have to face up to being extremely hyperbolic or flail around while attempting to skirt having to answer.
    You down with TPP?

  5. #35
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 12:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'd anxiously wait to hear which section of the Patriot Act specifically just gives the government blanket reason to listen in on anyone at any time for any reason.
    For the most part, the Patriot Act extended power the government already had to cover the subject of terrorism.

    If you didn't complain about that power - before - the Patriot Act...

  6. #36
    Professor
    Shewter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Puget Sound
    Last Seen
    02-21-13 @ 08:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,995

    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No clue. If one is prone to paranoia I can understand it can be a rather unnerving thought. I can also think of the extremely large amoutn of crime that has been stopped in part due to wire tapping over the past 4 decades and the thought of a large amount of those going unsolved also is a bit unnerving.
    Knowing your privacy is not of your own control doesnt bother you then? Well, different strokes I suppose. Said it twice in this thread, might as well go for #3 to drive it home. "One Small Step..."



    I'd anxiously wait to hear which section of the Patriot Act specifically just gives the government blanket reason to listen in on anyone at any time for any reason.

    The problem with Hyperbole when you're using it in a serious manner is that when you get called to actually prove it you either have to face up to being extremely hyperbolic or flail around while attempting to skirt having to answer.

    Preemptive victory dances aren't very becoming.

    The Act increases the ability of law enforcement agencies to search telephone, e-mail communications, medical, financial and other records; eases restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States; expands the Secretary of the Treasury’s authority to regulate financial transactions, particularly those involving foreign individuals and entities; and enhances the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities in detaining and deporting immigrants suspected of terrorism-related acts. The act also expands the definition of terrorism to include domestic terrorism, thus enlarging the number of activities to which the USA PATRIOT Act’s expanded law enforcement powers can be applied.
    USA PATRIOT Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Title II is titled "Enhanced Surveillance Procedures" and covers all aspects of the surveillance of suspected terrorists, those suspected of engaging in computer fraud or abuse, and agents of a foreign power who are engaged in clandestine activities. It primarily made amendments to FISA and the ECPA, and many of the most controversial aspects of the USA PATRIOT Act reside in this title. In particular, the title allows government agencies to gather "foreign intelligence information" from both U.S. and non-U.S. citizens, and changed FISA to make gaining foreign intelligence information the significant purpose of FISA-based surveillance, where previously it had been the primary purpose
    Title II established three very controversial provisions: "sneak and peek" searches, roving wiretaps and the ability of the FBI to gain access to documents that reveal the patterns of U.S. citizens. The so-called "sneak and peek" law allowed for delayed notification of the execution of search warrants. The period before which the FBI must notify the recipients of the order was unspecified in the Act — the FBI field manual says that it is a "flexible standard"[49] — and it may be extended at the court's discretion.[50] These sneak and peek provisions were struck down by judge Ann Aiken on September 26, 2007 after a Portland attorney, Brandon Mayfield was wrongly jailed because of the searches. The court found the searches to violate the provision that prohibits unreasonable searches in the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
    Roving wiretaps are wiretap orders that do not need to specify all common carriers and third parties in a surveillance court order. These are seen as important by the Department of Justice because they believe that terrorists can exploit wiretap orders by rapidly changing locations and communication devices such as cell phones,[53] while opponents see it as violating the particularity clause of the Fourth Amendment.
    So, for a direct tap, or hell, even an entire "Sneak peak" into my life, all they have to do is say "we have suspicion that he is a terrorist/is collaborating with terrorists." No proof necessary, just based on suspicion MY privacy is out the window.

    Yeah, that bugs me. Where does it go from here?
    Last edited by Shewter; 01-27-09 at 12:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Don't apologize to me over that silly ****. I could care less if I can see the dust or not.
    Now apologize for apologizing!

  7. #37
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    27,024

    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shewter View Post
    So, for a direct tap, or hell, even an entire "Sneak peak" into my life, all they have to do is say "we have suspicion that he is a terrorist/is collaborating with terrorists." No proof necessary, just based on suspicion MY privacy is out the window.

    Yeah, that bugs me. Where does it go from here?
    I'm sure you've heard of the term "probable cause"? Those two words allows any policman to go into your home weather they have a warrent or not. So whats the diff?

    Note I'm playing devils advocate here...I personally don't like the Patriot Act.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  8. #38
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 12:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I'm sure you've heard of the term "probable cause"? Those two words allows any policman to go into your home weather they have a warrent or not. So whats the diff?
    Remember too that the requirement for a warrant only applies to 'unreasonable' searches and siezures.

  9. #39
    Professor
    Shewter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Puget Sound
    Last Seen
    02-21-13 @ 08:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,995

    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I'm sure you've heard of the term "probable cause"? Those two words allows any policman to go into your home weather they have a warrent or not. So whats the diff?

    Note I'm playing devils advocate here...I personally don't like the Patriot Act.
    Should that have been brought up earlier I would have addressed it as well.

    I am not in favor of my privacy being invaded for little to no reason. Right now the FBI can go through datacenters and rifle through your box without asking, or even telling you afterwards. I was part of a private video game server staff for a while, and we ended up moving our boxes to Canada for that very reason. We had nothing to hide, but the fact that we had no say in who did or did not have access to what information we had on there, or even being informed of the matter, was just... upsetting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Don't apologize to me over that silly ****. I could care less if I can see the dust or not.
    Now apologize for apologizing!

  10. #40
    Familiaist


    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Last Seen
    09-26-12 @ 12:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    7,470

    Re: Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?

    Do the Principles of the Constitution Even Matter Anymore?
    No....
    I mean yes

    YES
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •