Is Ron Paul Insane?

You can be the first or second without actually being a Republican or in college.

new coup for you said:

You can be the first or second without actually being a Republican or in college.

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:lol:

How is that?

I won't be going socialist or neocon any time soon.

I don't stick with "libertarian" ideals untill they conflict with republican standards.

So, perhaps you should add a 4th category.

Shewters :think:

To do a really exhaustive anthropological study of libertarian society would require way more time on the internet then I could possibly fit into my schedule.

new coup for you said:

To do a really exhaustive anthropological study of libertarian society would require way more time on the internet then I could possibly fit into my schedule.

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I already provided you with a 4th option :2razz:

I'm thinking "internet libertarian" might be a reasonable addition, but it has a lot of similarities with "college libertarian".

new coup for you said:

I'm thinking "internet libertarian" might be a reasonable addition, but it has a lot of similarities with "college libertarian".

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:lol:

So, basically you don't believe libertarians are just that? There's always some hidden political stance waiting to burst out?

So basically you don't think that someone can rationally hold the Libertarian philosophy. In essence, you're defining libertarianism as irrational and reactionary. Interesting.

I think that it's an irrelevant political ideology, and while it has true believers, far more use it as a convenient tool for ulterior motives.

I basically will not debate about libertarianism itself; I feel that I don't have to. What I require is that Republican proponents of libertarianism prove that any significant Republican figure in the last 60 years was any less prone towards "big government" then the Democrats.

That's ultimately my frustration with libertarianism.

This is the Republican trick:

Republican A does something very bad.

Democrat A points this out.

Public is outraged.

Republican B explains that Republican A wasn't really a Republican because what he did was "big government", so therefore is against the true ideology of the party.

Democrat A points out that what he did was the party line until it was discovered to be a terrible idea.

Republican B calls Democrat A a socialist.

Repeat FOREVER.

And that's libertarians fault...or rather as you seem to insinuate, libertarianism purpose? I think that instead, you have a bigotry against libertarians and are basically contriving reasons by which you can just dismiss the whole of it.

Ikari said:

And that's libertarians fault...or rather as you seem to insinuate, libertarianism purpose? I think that instead, you have a bigotry against libertarians and are basically contriving reasons by which you can just dismiss the whole of it.

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Calm down. What he's saying is valid.

Unfortunately for what you could call "Real" libertarians.

But then again, we can't have everything we all want in one leader.

Ikari said:

And that's libertarians fault...or rather as you seem to insinuate, libertarianism purpose? I think that instead, you have a bigotry against libertarians and are basically contriving reasons by which you can just dismiss the whole of it.

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Well, the vast majority are basically Republicans.

But, the other alternative is just as bad.

The "true believers" are not only the obvious tool of social conservatives but approach politics in an incredibly narcissistic and useless way, often illustrating their naivety.

A Democrat from a large city has a very serious problem. Drugs, guns, whatever, it doesn't matter.

The Democrat wants to discuss how to solve the problem. He has various solutions and various processes requiring various funding.

The Republican doesn't want to pay for it because he'd rather spend money on missiles and doesn't really care about the problem.

The Libertarian wants to masturbate. He wants to tell everyone how much he loves liberty, which is a very easy thing to do. What's hard is actually solving problems. It's obvious to anyone that the free market absolutely does not always provide a better standard of living or a safer environment for everyone. Both the left and the right agree on this (although they focus on different aspects of the markets failings). The libertarian will argue that those failings are not failings- they're "natural" or that it's somehow heroic to burden them in the name of a "free society".

This is a very easy thing to say from the safety of libertarian Montana or behind a bourgeoisie computer screen at college.

However, the reality on the street, is that my actual existence is put in jeopardy everyday so that ideologues can entertain their fantasies about being able to overthrow a government that has stealth bombers with handguns and sawed-off shotguns.

Because they don't care about reality they care about entertaining their obsessive ideology.

new coup for you said:

Well, the vast majority are basically Republicans.

But, the other alternative is just as bad.

The "true believers" are not only the obvious tool of social conservatives but approach politics in an incredibly narcissistic and useless way, often illustrating their naivety.

A Democrat from a large city has a very serious problem. Drugs, guns, whatever, it doesn't matter.

The Democrat wants to discuss how to solve the problem. He has various solutions and various processes requiring various funding.

The Republican doesn't want to pay for it because he'd rather spend money on missiles and doesn't really care about the problem.

The Libertarian wants to masturbate. He wants to tell everyone how much he loves liberty, which is a very easy thing to do. What's hard is actually solving problems. It's obvious to anyone that the free market absolutely does not always provide a better standard of living or a safer environment for everyone. Both the left and the right agree on this (although they focus on different aspects of the markets failings). The libertarian will argue that those failings are not failings- they're "natural" or that it's somehow heroic to burden them in the name of a "free society".

This is a very easy thing to say from the safety of libertarian Montana or behind a bourgeoisie computer screen at college.

However, the reality on the street, is that my actual existence is put in jeopardy everyday so that ideologues can entertain their fantasies about being able to overthrow a government that has stealth bombers with handguns and sawed-off shotguns.

Because they don't care about reality they care about entertaining their obsessive ideology.

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Another topic and I'd be more than happy to go there with you.

Here's the problem with Libertarians:

They obsess over stupid bull**** like Rudy Ridge and Waco.

Philadelphia has the equivalent of about four Wacos every year. Adjusted for population (using Philly as a base) places like Baltimore and Detroit have a Waco about once every two weeks.

But libertarians don't care about that, because there's no heroic resistors or evil ATF. Because it's REAL LIFE, not a bizarre testosterone fueled reinterpretation of Red Dawn.

Because they don't care about people or problems, they care about their ideology.

new coup for you said:

Here's the problem with Libertarians:

They obsess over stupid bull**** like Rudy Ridge and Waco.

Philadelphia has the equivalent of about four Wacos every year. Adjusted for population (using Philly as a base) places like Baltimore and Detroit have a Waco about once every two weeks.

But libertarians don't care about that, because there's no heroic resistors or evil ATF. Because it's REAL LIFE, not a bizarre testosterone fueled reinterpretation of Red Dawn.

Because they don't care about people or problems, they care about their ideology.

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The same could easily be said about all of the major parties though.

When it comes down to it, there's good, bad, good actions, bad actions, good thoughts, bad thoughts. All subjective to opinion of course.

Republicans like to fix problems by ignoring them and seeing where it goes.

Democrats like to fix problems by attacking irrelevant sources.

Libertarians have yet to show what they're capable of, so I suppose I would have to wait and see, as would you.

Democrats are absolutely concerned with gun violence- and I'm not going to debate that with you because I will not debate it with people who will turn it into an ideological debate because it's so offensive to me.

I'm fairly certain that a good number of Republicans find gun violence in large cities emotionally satisfying.

new coup for you said:

Democrats are absolutely concerned with gun violence- and I'm not going to debate that with you because I will not debate it with people who will turn it into an ideological debate because it's so offensive to me.

I'm fairly certain that a good number of Republicans find gun violence in large cities emotionally satisfying.

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Democrats may be concerned with gun violence. But their "Solution" does not help. It never has, and in THIS country, it never will.

You are talking about libertarians being unrealistic... The "USUAL" democrat/liberal view on gun control is COMPLETELY unrealistic.

I'm not going to debate it with you.

new coup for you said:

I'm not going to debate it with you.

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Your choice of course.

(not trying to offend here, but I doubt it will come across anything BUT)

Why would you enter into a debate and refuse to back up your claims? Especially when the ideology you are supporting is as hypocritical in its process as the one you are attacking?

On no! My life is a lie!

I think there is a lot of validity in libertarian philosophy. Maybe the full of it can't be implemented, but it can be a useful tool in preventing government from going too far. You may think the fundamental individualistic view of libertarianism is dangerous, but the fully collective view of other philosophies can be equally dangerous. Guns are a problem in inner city, but what's your solution? Confiscation of guns? Bans on guns? Are the high rate of gun and other violent crimes even the problem or a symptom of a larger problem caused by overuse of government and a switch to corporate capitalism which has fundamentally cut off economic and social mobility? Most drugs are already illegal, so what's the solution there? Make it even more illegal? The complete dismissal of libertarianism based on perceived notions of what libertarians are I believe is foolish. I can make a case to dismiss the whole of other philosophies too based around preconceived notions of people whom are in the movement. There are certain romanticized aspects of government and civic duty in libertarianism, but I don't think that act is unique solely to libertarianism. In the end you disparage a group based on preconceived notions of the aggregate composition of that group. Instead of that, I would say that hearing the arguments and trying to understand if implimentation of certain aspects of that argument could better the overall use of government would be a better use of time. But you are of course free to do as you like. If you'd like to insult and dismiss the libertarian philosophy based on personal bigotry; you are more than free to do so.

There simply aren't any ideologies, be they left or right or somewhere in between, that don't fail at some point for some reason IMO. Its not the ideologies fault that people cannot be expected to behave in the manner the ideology calls for.

WI Crippler said:

There simply aren't any ideologies, be they left or right or somewhere in between, that don't fail at some point for some reason IMO. Its not the ideologies fault that people cannot be expected to behave in the manner the ideology calls for.

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Which is is, in this country, something the right is more guilty of.

Any democrat who suggests a mixed economy is branded a socialist. It's ludicrous.

new coup for you said:

Here's the problem with Libertarians:

They obsess over stupid bull**** like Rudy Ridge and Waco.

Philadelphia has the equivalent of about four Wacos every year. Adjusted for population (using Philly as a base) places like Baltimore and Detroit have a Waco about once every two weeks.

But libertarians don't care about that, because there's no heroic resistors or evil ATF. Because it's REAL LIFE, not a bizarre testosterone fueled reinterpretation of Red Dawn.

Because they don't care about people or problems, they care about their ideology.

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Im going to assume your referring to guns here. What I hate is when some horrible shooting happens, everyone on the political spectrum goes into knee jerk reaction mode. Usually two things get the blame 1. Guns and 2. The Entertainment Industry. Social/Religious Conservatives want more censorship over the entertainment industry and Liberals want more control on gun ownership and both reactions are 100% wrong.

new coup for you said:

Any democrat who suggests a mixed economy is branded a socialist. It's ludicrous.

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I would agree with you here, Democrats aren't socialist in the classic deffinition of socialism. In my opinion they are more along the lines of Social Democrats.

Social democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's the problem with Libertarians:

They obsess over stupid bull**** like Rudy Ridge and Waco.

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Show me ONE instance in which a libertarian on this forum has obsessed over either Rudy Ridge or Waco. Oh wait, you can't, because we all know this is just another example of you and others blatantly and purposely misrepresenting what libertarians stand for because you're incapable of debating the actual issues with even a semblance of civility or substance.

Philadelphia has the equivalent of about four Wacos every year. Adjusted for population (using Philly as a base) places like Baltimore and Detroit have a Waco about once every two weeks.

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What does this have to do with anything!? Seriously!?

PHILLY! SHOOTINGS! PEOPLE DYING! OMFG! YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE DEAD PEOPLE! BLOOD! ARGHHHH!

You know, I've always appreciated the quote you display at the bottom of all your posts, but apparently its meaning escapes you. How ironic, indeed.

But libertarians don't care about that, because there's no heroic resistors or evil ATF. Because it's REAL LIFE, not a bizarre testosterone fueled reinterpretation of Red Dawn.

Because they don't care about people or problems, they care about their ideology.

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More emotional nonsense...two can play at that game...

DON'T TALK TO ME ABOUT REALITY! I'VE BEEN TO IRAQ AND YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE BLOOD AND THE GUTS! YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE I'VE SEEN PEOPLE DIE! DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND!? I'M TALKING ABOUT DEAD PEOPLE HERE!

Yea, NCFY, I guess you're the only one in the world who knows what it's like to see people get hurt or die. The rest of us are just college kids with our heads in the sky; we should have known better than to question your mastery of reality...

Ron Paul is of sound-mind.
The masses are programmed into mind A which tells them that anything else is mad.

HELL NO!

Not only is he NOT insane. He is just about the only member of Congress who is of a sound and rational mind.