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Thread: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

  1. #81
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Joby View Post
    In 1937 a recesion hit, but luckily FDR was able to get a $5b stimulus plan passed in order to put that in the rear view mirror.

    Also, while everyone else can dis on FDR's actions, nobody talks about what has stood since the Depression, from Hoover Dam to the TVA we gained a lot more from that period than a lot of prosperous times.


    Thanks for the preview of how Obama apologists will spin the prolonged recovery and spinoff recessions he creates-by misrepresenting his extreme expansion of the nanny state as what saved it, rather than what the market managed to survive despite of.

    This is exactly the sleazy, dishonest propaganda tactic (identified in the original post) that will lead to Obama, like FDR, being glorified as a savior (not that that's not already happening) despite the fact that it is Democrats who always create and then greatly worsen the economic problems.

    Please, have some integrity and stop perpetuating leftist misinformation.
    Last edited by aquapub; 01-26-09 at 08:53 AM.
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Public works could perhaps still save the empire. I hope that Obama's efforts are able to result in at least as many and hopefully many more public works projects than the new deal did.

    Oh and the notion that the markets can regulate themselves is dead forever. I take that back. It's dead for now. It will return when it becomes even a feasible scheme for the incredibly wealthy to further concentrate their wealth. At this point its leading to such a massive collapse that it threatens even them. And when it returns from the fringe, its hilarious without end to think that it will not be spewed only from CEOs and the grandsons of CEOs and heritage foundation hacks, but from those within the working class, and those benefiting from government programs who still imagine that they could get ahead if only the weaker workers around them didn't have it so easy.

    Hilarious I say, but tragic in the end. Then again comedy is tragedy plus time. One can only laugh in a country where labor is treated like **** and millions of people, not just the rich think that the problem is that workers have it too easy. In a country where the labor of the many produces such astounding wealth for so few and the masses call for lower taxes on the wealthiest before even thinking of themselves. Such opposition to self-interest and reason. Such deeply engrained obedience.
    "We may have destroyed this country, but we got rich doing it!" --The GOP
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  3. #83
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Damn, I voted wrong. grrrr I meant no.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)

  4. #84
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by faminedynasty View Post
    Public works could perhaps still save the empire. I hope that Obama's efforts are able to result in at least as many and hopefully many more public works projects than the new deal did.

    Oh and the notion that the markets can regulate themselves is dead forever.
    I take that back. It's dead for now. It will return when it becomes even a feasible scheme for the incredibly wealthy to further concentrate their wealth. At this point its leading to such a massive collapse that it threatens even them. And when it returns from the fringe, its hilarious without end to think that it will not be spewed only from CEOs and the grandsons of CEOs and heritage foundation hacks, but from those within the working class, and those benefiting from government programs who still imagine that they could get ahead if only the weaker workers around them didn't have it so easy.

    Hilarious I say, but tragic in the end. Then again comedy is tragedy plus time. One can only laugh in a country where labor is treated like **** and millions of people, not just the rich think that the problem is that workers have it too easy. In a country where the labor of the many produces such astounding wealth for so few and the masses call for lower taxes on the wealthiest before even thinking of themselves. Such opposition to self-interest and reason. Such deeply engrained obedience.
    Just curious the logic behind the bolded part of your statement.

    The rest is so laughable, I'm ignoring it, lest I spew coffee on my keyboard.
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  5. #85
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    Not quite. Republicans, if history is any indication, would have expanded the nanny state at about 55 mph. Democrats do it at 95 mph, while claiming to be champions of the Constitution. With Democrats, it's actually a scam.
    Democrats state what they're doing before they do it. For example, Obama said he was going to spend a lot of money once he got elected in a stimulus package. If you had paid attention during the campaign season, you would have noticed.

    Ronald Reagan, along with the 2 Republicans after him, on the other hand, came in promising a balanced budget. All of them lied to the American people and, in the case of the actor we got introduced to the trillion dollar deficit. But as Dick Morris states in your link, Reagan cut taxes and rode up the deficit so Democrats couldn't spend money...which is perhaps the stupidest explanation for any policy I have ever heard.

    Thank you for demonstrating my point about liberals being completely historically ignorant. After years of Hoover enacting liberal policies and wildly expanding the nanny state, our economy collapsed. The same inadequately Republican leader who caused the Great Depression by being too liberal would've used the same shortsighted big government approach to try and fix the problem he created, deepening and prolonging the Depression, just like FDR did.
    a. FDR inherited a Republican created depression and, if your logic holds, it was George W Bush's liberal policies which created this one.
    b. All republican office holders are scum who immediately betray their party's ideals once elected, so please stop acting like it's weird.

    Liberal policies simply don't work, as we've seen yet again almost a hundred years later with Democrat-created $4/gallon gas and the Democrat Affirmative Action lending policies that destroyed the housing market.
    Care to explain your logic on this?

    Damn, you know aquapub, Republicans must really suck if even when they control the federal govt the opposition is still able to destroy the economy.

    It is not academic at all. History has repeatedly proven that liberal policies don't work. And no, just because poor people are always going to vote in favor of trampling the Constitution to redistribute the wealth from those who earn it to those who won't lift a finger for their own station in life doesn't mean that trampling the Constitution was inevitable. Proper vigilance by the other two branches can always put the power grabs of the one trying to trample the Constitution in check.
    First, your absolutely right, it's no academic at all. In the United Kingdom, conservative policies were enacted, including cutting public sector wages by 10% and returning to a balanced budget. They completely took a dump on Keynes, despite his being British.

    Needless to say the result was so horrible that people remembered it for a long time. Which is why in 1945 they kicked Churchill and his conservative minions to the curb.

    Now, how did the UK get out of the slump?

    From 1936 onwards the National Government followed a policy of mass rearmament in the face of the rise of Nazi Germany. This provided the economic stimulus that finally ended the depression. By 1937 unemployment had fallen to 1.5 million, from where it fell even further. The mobilisation of manpower following the outbreak of World War II in September 1939 finally ended unemployment.
    That's right, massive got spending.

    Or in other words, conservative reactions to the Great Depression was an absolute failure

    Second, as long as the GOP believes that Paris Hilton, who we all know works so hard, deserves a tax break before I do they can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned.
    Last edited by Joby; 01-27-09 at 08:42 PM.
    down for you is up

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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Joby View Post
    (SNIPPED)
    b. All republican office holders are scum who immediately betray their party's ideals once elected, so please stop acting like it's weird.
    ALL politicians immediately betray their constituents once elected, it's not specific to any certain party.
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Lately the Republican party has been rewriting the history of the Depression, with the aim of using their fabricated history as a weapon to whack Obama with, when it comes time to take action to clean up Bush's mess.

    This effort got a boost up when we started hearing this "FDR prolonged the Depression" nonsense from Harold Cole and Lee Ohanian at UCLA. Trying to ridicule stimulus programs like the ones being contemplated now in Washington , these two guys claimed, with no evidence, that the New Deal recovery took longer than it should have, and that most of the blame for this alleged delay belongs to the National Industrial Recovery Act (the NIRA, not the NRA). This assertion is idiotic: the NIRA was blown away by a Supreme Court ruling only 2 years after enactment, and had very little impact even when it was in force. They claim further that under the NIRA, FDR went too easy on Big Business, which is absurd Ė Big Business hated FDR more than any man in the 20th century and wanted him destroyed. They insist, also on no evidence, that without the NIRA the Depression would have ended in 1936.


    And the people who are trying to peddle this Cole/Ohanian rubbish to the American people: Fox News. Enough said. They claim that historians agree with this assessment, which is dead wrong.


    The argument that FDRís effort to restore the economy took too long begs the question: compared to what? The Republicans? Hoover had almost four years to fix the problem and he failed disastrously: virtually every economic indicator tanked, including the stock market which dropped something like 90 percent. Hoover signed the Smoot Hawley bill even though he knew it was risky, which made matters even worse. Despite all this, the Republicans nominated him for reelection in 1932, and he made clear that he intended to stick to his own economic plans if reelected. Even after he lost the election, he was still yammering at FDR to continue doing things the Hoover way. So clearly Hoover couldnít have done it better.


    And who did the Republicans nominate in 1936? Alf Landon, who liked FDR and publicly approved most of the New Deal (although he criticized it a week before the election because he knew he was about to get crushed by the voters). Landon would have had to do things pretty much the way FDR did, but he couldnít have done it without FDR showing the way.


    The widespread view held by both historians and economists is that FDR did what he had to do. Despite the necessity of essentially rewriting the textbook for modern economics and fiscal policy right in the middle the worst economic crisis on record, he did just what was needed. Bushís Fed chair, Bernanke, and conservative economist Milton Friedman are among those who have admitted that FDRís reform of the financial sector was the key step in saving the economy, and that setting up the FDIC was the best move for stabilizing finance in 70 years. FDR saved the banks and the banks helped save the country.


    And just as important, FDR restored the one element necessary to any healthy economy: confidence. Once people knew that we had a president who was going to work like a dog to solve the problems, and that there was going to be a sensible level of oversight to prevent speculation, fraud and other nonsense, people spent, bought, invested, worked.


    Nobel prize winner Paul Krugman is one of a number of experts who pointed out that the only time the recovery faltered was when FDR dialed back the New Deal programs in 1937, under pressure from conservatives. It was impeding the New Deal programs that impeded the recovery.


    Even the way Cole and Ohanian framed the question was wrong: the issue was never how fast FDR rebuilt the economy, but how well he did it. It was a Herculean task that was going to take a long time no matter who was doing it. But at the end of the day, if youíre undergoing open-heart surgery to save your life, do you want the guy who will do it in 10 minutes with a jackknife, or in 2 hours with a surgical team? Or, in Hoover ís case, someone who canít do it fast OR do it right? Any effort to launch a quick fix in 1933 would have led to a speculative-bubble sugar-high like the one that caused the Depression in the first place. Building safely and soundly, as FDR did, was what got confidence, spending and investment going. America saw that, and reelected him three times.


    People in the political world never seem to grasp the fact that although their own world moves fast, economic change moves slowly. Note that I said economic, not financial Ė currencies and stocks can jump all over the place in a day, but the underlying economic fundamentals just donít change that fast. And when you ask these critics Ė what could FDR have done to speed things up? Ė a silence descends.


    Only FDR could have achieved what he did: not Hoover , not Landon. Not even FDRís rivals for the 1932 nomination: Al Smith hated FDR and the New Deal, and John Nance Garner interfered with FDR so much that FDR threw him out of the vice-presidency in the 1940 election, and prevented him from running for president.


    FDR achieved a miracle, and raised us up from disaster into world conquest. Without FDRís brilliant New Deal performance, we never could have built the greatest economy in world history and conquered both halves of the world in WWII. Never, not even during the age of Alexander or Genghis Khan or Napoleon, has a nation risen from such disaster to such greatness in such a little time. From economic catastrophe to world domination in only 12 years, and they say it didnít happen fast enough? Carping about the New Deal is like whining that Sergeant Pepper isnít perfect because they should have chucked out "Fixing a Hole". Itís freakin Sergeant Pepper. Enough with the whining and the historical revisionism.

  8. #88
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Enacting the new Deal policies particularly Social Security, minimum wage, increased tax rates, and government backed unions all played a part to increase the cost of labor in the 30s. The more it cost businesses to hire a worker the less workers they can hire. So it stands to reason that unemployment (a major factor in a recession/depression) would have decreased at a quicker rate than it did without all or some of these policies. This would have resulted in a quicker recovery.
    That is not to mention many of the policies enacted were found to be unconstitutional. Many of the programs enacted by the New Deal (Fannie Mae, Fiat Money, FDIC) Are now directly responsible for our current situation. Since we have a school system run by the government, most people have been taught to believe FDR was a knight in shining armor when really he was a turd carrying megalomaniac.
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Enacting the new Deal policies particularly Social Security, minimum wage, increased tax rates, and government backed unions all played a part to increase the cost of labor in the 30s. The more it cost businesses to hire a worker the less workers they can hire. So it stands to reason that unemployment (a major factor in a recession/depression) would have decreased at a quicker rate than it did without all or some of these policies. This would have resulted in a quicker recovery.
    That is not to mention many of the policies enacted were found to be unconstitutional. Many of the programs enacted by the New Deal (Fannie Mae, Fiat Money, FDIC) Are now directly responsible for our current situation. Since we have a school system run by the government, most people have been taught to believe FDR was a knight in shining armor when really he was a turd carrying megalomaniac.

    The economy did not rise or fall depending on labor costs -- it depended on the needs of the market and on spending confidence. Your hypothesis about these policies causing unemployment is directly contradicted by what actually happened. The policies were not unconstitutional and they did not cause the current crisis. And your silly ad hominem attack at the end isn't hurting anything but your credibility.

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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    FDR was one of the most treasonous presidents we've ever had the misfortune of having in office. He blackmailed the SCOTUS to pass his unconstitutional plans, he put us in a state of emergency which authorized the government with power it shouldn't have had and which to this day has not been canceled. And all this talk about how he got us out of the depression, well that has more to do with WW II than anything else. People tend to look at FDR with rose colored glasses and forgive all that he has done to destroy the chains of the Constitution and bring ruin to the Republic. Instead, having firmly set us down the path not of republic, but of oligopoly. Obama I fear is of the same cloth, and we must watch his every move. Well that's true of government as a whole; but Obama can not be trusted. Chicago politicians are the scariest of them all.

    I suggest some people read The Roosevelt Myth, it's a really good and objective look at FDR's presidency.
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