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Thread: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

  1. #111
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Decker View Post
    I've taken the time to read about the causes of the Great Depression. It's an extremely complex topic. Here're are some of the main reasons the country's economy crashed:

    The politics/economics dominating the years prior to the Great Depression were Republican & laissez faire. Low taxes, invisible regulation of business and free-wheeling capitalism. Harding, Coolidge and Hoover followed that playbook which played to the interests robber baron/wall street elites.
    Laissez faire capitalism at that point was out the window. I will agree some of the robber barons where manipulating the market but they did that with the governments help by the establishment of the Federal Reserve.

    The Fed caused the depression because they didn't know what they were doing with the money supply. The contracted it in the middle of the depression instead of expanding it. Banks fail because they were operating with fractional lending. The Fed was the supposed to be the lender of last resort at this time.

    The government failed in controlling the economy. They can't control it. Its nearly a complete impossibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decker View Post
    Wealth and income inequality were extreme.
    This will always be true because some people are achievers and others are not. Government can never fix this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decker View Post
    IN the 1920s 600 banks a year were failing. Farmland was losing its value by almost half. Although worker productivity rises some 43% in the decade, the income goes almost solely to the top 1%. Stocks take off in value and taxes on the wealthy drop. Regulation of business is invisible. Hoover took office in 1929 and offered some gov. help but it was too little, too late.

    After years of small government laissez faire approach, the US economy crashed. In its wake, destitution to the tune of 25%+ unemployment.
    I addressed this above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decker View Post
    That's what happens on the watch of Republicans with their small government, laissez faire politics/economics.
    Which decade Republicans are you talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Decker View Post
    Along comes FDR using Keynesian spending policies: the economy rose in 5 out of 7 years prior to the war. The gov. goes off of the gold standard (about time) and creates jobs with the CCC, TVA...FDR resdistributes much wealth from the elites to the rest of the population and the standard of living improves, unemployment shrinks, GDP/GNP improves and the only setback occurs in 1938 when he tries to placate his opponents with the failed policies of his Republican predecessors. There's a time and place for balanced budgets and 1938/USA was not one of those times or places.

    The Great Depression was worldwide. The first countries to rise out of the GD were those that adopted governmental spending - Germany, Great Britain, Sweden.
    Or it could of been that the recession/depression was over. That people were starting to lend more again. Its a natural cycle. Contraction and expansion, in true laisse faire style though it won't be as sharp as what we see now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decker View Post
    Since the US has adopted governmental spending policies to correct the errors of the free market, the USA has not had a single depression.
    No but we have had several booms and busts because the government forces the hand of some. It creates illusions of growth. Then the bust comes when people realize that most of the growth was bunk.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #112
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Laissez faire capitalism at that point was out the window. I will agree some of the robber barons where manipulating the market but they did that with the governments help by the establishment of the Federal Reserve.
    The government was still on the gold standard prior to FDR's arrival so the Fed was not allowed to affect the money supply in any meaningful way.

    The Fed caused the depression because they didn't know what they were doing with the money supply. The contracted it in the middle of the depression instead of expanding it. Banks fail because they were operating with fractional lending. The Fed was the supposed to be the lender of last resort at this time.
    I don't think that's true at all. The factors causing the Great Depression were many and as I pointed out, the country was still on the gold standard so the Fed had little leeway in affecting the money supply.

    The government failed in controlling the economy. They can't control it. Its nearly a complete impossibility.
    Oversight, regulation, anti-trust laws and the like ensure that the economy can run smoothly. Like officials make a football game run smoothly.

    This will always be true because some people are achievers and others are not. Government can never fix this.
    I don't think so. The level of abject poverty in terms of degree and scope should not be the normal product of a country's economic activity. To accept such destitution as normal is cruel. As FDR showed, the government can improve everyone's life in a certain measure.


    Which decade Republicans are you talking about?
    The Harding-Hoover years.

    Or it could of been that the recession/depression was over. That people were starting to lend more again. Its a natural cycle. Contraction and expansion, in true laisse faire style though it won't be as sharp as what we see now.
    How did the country start emerging from the Depression? Was it the massive national job creation efforts of the US government? Was it the crackdown on robber-baron type practices? Was it the redistribution of wealth that was implemented?

    Or was it the low tax, zero regulation approach that worked so poorly during the Coolidge-Hoover Years?

    No but we have had several booms and busts because the government forces the hand of some. It creates illusions of growth. Then the bust comes when people realize that most of the growth was bunk.
    I'm not following you.

  3. #113
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    How did the country start emerging from the Depression? Was it the massive national job creation efforts of the US government? Was it the crackdown on robber-baron type practices? Was it the redistribution of wealth that was implemented?

    Or was it the low tax, zero regulation approach that worked so poorly during the Coolidge-Hoover Years?
    It was the natural start to the expansion cycle of capitalism. The growth would have been larger in the early years if not hindered by New Deal programs.
    You keep using the referee analogy so I will use one also.
    Think of the economy during the depression as a huge block of ice sitting outside. The temperature is 15 degrees day after day.
    Everyone keep waiting for the ice to melt but it never does.
    Finally FDR decides to build a temp. controlled building around the ice block and the temperature will be set at 40 degrees. So the ice block begins to melt. In the meantime the outside temperature rises to 50 degrees.
    The ice block doesn't melt as fast as it would naturally because if the temperature controlled building. The economy didn't rebound as fast as it would have because of government interference.
    From the ashes.

  4. #114
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Decker View Post
    The government was still on the gold standard prior to FDR's arrival so the Fed was not allowed to affect the money supply in any meaningful way.

    I don't think that's true at all. The factors causing the Great Depression were many and as I pointed out, the country was still on the gold standard so the Fed had little leeway in affecting the money supply.
    The Fed was created in 1913. It more or less changed our money supply by offering a partial fiat partial gold standard type currency. The Fed could inflate/deflate the currency at that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decker View Post
    Oversight, regulation, anti-trust laws and the like ensure that the economy can run smoothly. Like officials make a football game run smoothly.

    I don't think so. The level of abject poverty in terms of degree and scope should not be the normal product of a country's economic activity. To accept such destitution as normal is cruel. As FDR showed, the government can improve everyone's life in a certain measure.
    Regulation and oversight are good idea's but they are never performed correctly by government(Madoff scandal). If a company emerges as a monopoly in a free market they have to operate as if they are still competing with another company. Otherwise they will find new competition springing up everywhere to unseat them.

    On the other hand government is a monopoly but a lot of people find it as a benevolent force. History has proven that untrue.

    Poverty is a fact of life. Some people don't have the motivation, the brain power, or the ability to learn new or better skills to adapt to a dynamic world.
    We will never escape it in any near future lifetime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decker View Post
    The Harding-Hoover years.
    I'm not fans of Harding or Hoover but the Fed was relatively new and no one knew what going to happen until it was to late.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decker View Post
    How did the country start emerging from the Depression? Was it the massive national job creation efforts of the US government? Was it the crackdown on robber-baron type practices? Was it the redistribution of wealth that was implemented?

    Or was it the low tax, zero regulation approach that worked so poorly during the Coolidge-Hoover Years?
    The money he appropriated was either a: taken from the market in taxes or b: borrowed. In scenario a: the government acting as a middle man is inefficiency alone but that the money would be better spent by people creating jobs out of self interest.

    In scenario b: the borrowed money is robbed from future generations to cover the stupidity of now. It robs them of possible wealth and government is notorious for inefficiency.


    Quote Originally Posted by Decker View Post
    I'm not following you.
    Since the Great Depression, it seems every 6-10 years we have a boom bust cycle. The rises in supposed economic growth are sharp, then the bust comes to correct the fake growth and it tries to find its center.


    As a side note: Thanks for replying thoughtfully and intelligently.
    I apologize for calling your earlier post "partisan yapping" it was uncalled for
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #115
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Decker View Post
    FDR did save the country. He also helped expand the middle class with his gov. programs.

    You are mischaracterizing the Freddie/Fannie scandal. The problem started when LBJ privatized FDR's program (when Freddie was created to compete with Fannie). The companies bought mortgages from banks and resold them to new investors.
    Neither were ever fully privatized and it was always assumed they were defacto backed by the government. Turns out they were right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Decker View Post
    Enter GW Bush and Phil Gramm. After 9/11, to fund both his wars and unheard of giant tax cuts, Bush removed the reserve requirement from Freddie/Fannie so that more bargained basement loans could be made to keep the economy humming. Bush also preempted state oversight laws for predatory lenders with federal laws...unenforced federal laws.
    Can you substantiate that claim? I think it is incorrect. Bush actually call for MORE regulation and proposed an agency specifically to oversee Fannie/Freddie. It was shouted down by Franks, Watts, and others that were afraid it would adversely affect poor and minorities ability to get housing, exactly what I was talking about. Either way it doesn't matter who was keeping the program going, the point is Fannie/Freddie were used to get banks to make loans they would not otherwise make. You even admitted that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decker View Post
    Low taxes and no regulatory oversight. Sounds familiar? Like the 1920s.
    Repeal of a few laws hardly constitutes "No Oversight"
    Quote Originally Posted by Decker View Post
    Phil Gramm, he wrote the book and the law on credit default swaps freeing markets/institutions from oversight. "Prior to its passage, they say, banks underwrote mortgages and were responsible for the risks involved. Now, through the use of [CDSs]-which in theory insure the banks against bad debts-those risks are passed along to insurance companies and other investors," wrote Texas Observer.

    How does this relate to Lehman's bankruptcy? "[CDSs] were a key factor in encouraging lenders to feel they could make loans without knowing the risks or whether the loan would be paid back. The Commodity Futures Modernization Act freed them of federal oversight," according to Texas Monthly. And it was due to these CDSs that Wall Street held an emergency session yesterday to try to minimize the damage of Lehman's CDSs and other derivatives. Unfortunately, this session did not produce much thanks to the built-in lack of knowledge of the risks in these transactions that Gramm's legislation ensured.
    100 Year Crash: McCain advisor spurred $62 trillion derivatives market that will swamp global markets - BloggingStocks

    Greed and corruption ran rampant. Foreign countries unwittingly kept the scheme alive buying the repackage/bundled bad mortgages and now we have all this.

    That's the genesis of the problem...not fiat money or gold standards or the like.
    This whole part leaves out the fact that if Government hadn't been offering bargain basement money to banks they would not have been able to loan the funds in the first place. The banks would have needed people to do things like save money in order to make loans. That means people need to have down payments. Fannie freddie loans do not have this requirement.

    And why is it not Clinton and Gramm instead of Bush and Gramm?
    From the ashes.

  6. #116
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    No we couldn't, not even close.


    Our current debt is a problem no doubt. However, Obama shifted the problem to Obama, he won, remember. On January 20th it became his problem by his own choosing.


    Can you let us know when we can criticize Obama? Send out a memo or something? Are people supposed to keep mum about EVERYTHING he does or just certain things?
    Don't let my stop you from criticizing Obama. We have freedom of speech and you can create anything you want when you write.

    Here are some good ideas for you to start your fiction stories with.

    1. Obama is Russian Spy trained by Stalin.
    2. Obama was actually borne at the North Pole/Poll and is really Santa Claus.
    3. Obama is a secret Bush/Rush supporter.
    4. Obama hates all Americans whether they are brown, red, blue, green, black or white.
    5. Obama hates Clowns with big purble noses.
    6. Obama loves Norwegian and Chinese Tacos.
    7. Obama was hatched from an egg from outer space. At least he did not evolve from nasty little man eating sharks, as George Bash did.

    Sorry,, I should have said Geoge Rush, Butch, Bunsh,,,,, Darn what was that man's name???? you all know,???,,,???,, the one with the big wooden nose that grew a half an inch longer each time he told a lie. Remember George who's nose was many thousands of miles long by the time he stopped being president.

    You can always listen BRush. He fills the air ways with home made lies, bad chicken soup and inuendos concerning Obama.

    Have a good day, Your Buddy,

    DRAGONSLAYER THE GREAT. What will I do now? The great nasty man eating dragon is no longer in the White house.
    Last edited by dragonslayer; 01-31-09 at 10:59 PM.

  7. #117
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonslayer View Post
    Don't let my stop you from criticizing Obama. We have freedom of speech and you can create anything you want when you write.

    Here are some good ideas for you to start your fiction stories with.

    1. Obama is Russian Spy trained by Stalin.
    2. Obama was actually borne at the North Pole/Poll and is really Santa Claus.
    3. Obama is a secret Bush/Rush supporter.
    4. Obama hates all Americans whether they are brown, red, blue, green, black or white.
    5. Obama hates Clowns with big purble noses.
    6. Obama loves Norwegian and Chinese Tacos.
    7. Obama was hatched from an egg from outer space. At least he did not evolve from nasty little man eating sharks, as George Bash did.

    Sorry,, I should have said Geoge Rush, Butch, Bunsh,,,,, Darn what was that man's name???? you all know,???,,,???,, the one with the big wooden nose that grew a half an inch longer each time he told a lie. Remember George who's nose was many thousands of miles long by the time he stopped being president.

    You can always listen BRush. He fills the air ways with home made lies, bad chicken soup and inuendos concerning Obama.

    Have a good day, Your Buddy,

    DRAGONSLAYER THE GREAT. What will I do now? The great nasty man eating dragon is no longer in the White house.

    Great Comedy!
    From the ashes.

  8. #118
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Originally Posted by dragonslayer View Post
    Don't let my stop you from criticizing Obama. We have freedom of speech and you can create anything you want when you write.

    Here are some good ideas for you to start your fiction stories with.

    1. Obama is Russian Spy trained by Stalin.
    2. Obama was actually borne at the North Pole/Poll and is really Santa Claus.
    3. Obama is a secret Bush/Rush supporter.
    4. Obama hates all Americans whether they are brown, red, blue, green, black or white.
    5. Obama hates Clowns with big purble noses.
    6. Obama loves Norwegian and Chinese Tacos.
    7. Obama was hatched from an egg from outer space. At least he did not evolve from nasty little man eating sharks, as George Bash did.

    My guess would be maybe 3. Except you got to change it to "is a secret supporter of the group that Bush was shared power through".


    4 would be an interesting P-O-V. He'd have to be a mole perfectly planted by some entity with THE money in a perfectly executed plan by using some out of the spot-light and very charismatic person. I think someone would have found out by now though.

    If 6 isn't true maybe it should be.
    Last edited by dirtpoorchris; 01-31-09 at 11:33 PM.
    Is society was made of coral our world would be floral.

  9. #119
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Great Comedy!
    Thanks, I was hoping it would be good comedy.

  10. #120
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    Re: Obama to Repeat FDR's Scam

    I seen this in rants and raves on craiglist and seems good info if all correct to add to this thread.

    History , do you really know it.? Do government Stimulus bills work ? not the ones that make “government jobs”

    1929 Stock market crashes. Over the next “3” years the unemployment rate goes up from 5% to 37% (in 1932)

    1933 The “new deal” is started by President Roosevelt. Millions of new government paid for jobs are started. Almost “ALL” are blue collar. Remember at the time over 70% of the people at that time were blue collar and farm jobs people.

    Over the next “2” years the unemployment rate “slowly” went down to 30%. At that time the supreme court found that many parts of the “New Deal” were un constational. Many parts of the plan were stopped. With less government intervention the unemployment continued to drop. Who would have thought?

    By 1937 the unemployment rate had dropped to about 22%. The government started the new stimulus package “New Deal” part 2. by 1938 the unemployment rate had jumped back “UP” to 27%. More stimulus package= more unemployment.

    With WW2 on the horizon, the government started a War preparation manufacturing and construction. The unemployment rate started a slow slide down to 22%.

    1940 the US starts its “War Economy program” and unemployment slides to 14%

    1941 US enters WW2, over the next “year” unemployment FALLS to about 7%

    1942 With the US at war the unemployment drops to 3% by 1944.


    The point of all this boring data is to show that. The “New Deal” did help a little. It did start a very slow decrease in unemployment 1933 (37%) -1937 (22%) . than the government started a "new stimulus package" and unemployment went back up to 28% till war preparation was started.

    All the stimulus packages from 1832 to 1838 never brought the unemployment rate below 22%.

    So if we use the same time line we only have 8-10 more years to go to get back to normal. And that’s only if we start a new world war other wise we may have 15-20 more years to go.

    The PORK stimulus package is a joke on the American people by the Democratic PIGS in congress.

    Why are we giving a $140,000,000.00 (140 Million) stimulus out for climate data computer modeling. A lot of F-ing jobs that will make. But if you want the “global warming” BS going you have to pay off some one
    Is society was made of coral our world would be floral.

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