View Poll Results: Are gun owners STILL paranoid?

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  • Yes

    20 57.14%
  • No

    15 42.86%
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Thread: Are gun owners STILL paranoid?

  1. #51
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    Re: Are gun owners STILL paranoid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    What I'm trying to reconcile is the idea of conservatives being staunchly "tough on crime" with the idea of preventing police from being able to solve gun crimes. The Tiahrt amendment sounds retarded. If gun "enthusiasts" wanted to gain a bit of credibility in my eyes, they'd do everything in their power to make sure that it was as hard as possible for known felons to gain access to firearms.

    And this is coming from someone who believes we are waaaay overpoliced.
    Maybe we should talk about the percentage of crimes commited with registered weapons versus unregistered. How much crime would you expect a citizen with a concealed-carry permit to commit?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)

  2. #52
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    Re: Are gun owners STILL paranoid?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Your post and analysis were wrong on many levels.
    I was wrong about... what, specifially?

    That incendiary speech is banned not because of potential threat, but because of a clear and present, immediate danger, to pubic safety?

    Or that the simple posession of an 'assault weapon' does not create a clear and present, immediate danger?

    The first problem.....you have to understand how Constitutional Analysis works and how the court goes about determining whether a ban meet Constitutional muster.
    Hmm.
    Seems we were looking at rerstrictions on the 1st amendment; you were telling me how the restrictions on incendiary speech support the constitutionality of a ban on 'assault weapons'.

    Do you or do you not stand by that argument?

    If so, then address the specifics of my post.
    if you cannot address thise specifics, then concede the point.

    If you actually believe that the Supreme Court would find that having possession of assault weapons is a "fundamental right" THAT is the first error...
    Not that you have show thus far, even though you have been given aple opportunity to do so.

  3. #53
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    Re: Are gun owners STILL paranoid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Why is it reasonable? What evidence does anyone have that placing these restrictions will reduce crime? Are our Constitutional Rights considered inalienable?
    The first question that the Supreme Court addresses in analysis is whether the right infringed upon is a "fundamental" right or a lower level right.

    Assuming for sake of argument that the Court were to find possession of assault weapons to be a "fundamental" right...(which is unlikely)...the next step of the analysis would be whether curtailing that right serves a "compelling" governmental interest.

    One of the main compelling arguments would be that assault weapons place law enforcement at risk. Do you recall the North Hollywood shootout in LA?
    Law Enforcement were held off for hours because they could not match the shooting power of the men with the assault weapons.

    Regardless...it is unlikely that the Court would ever find possession ofassault weapons to be a "fundamental right". It was difficult for them to find possession of handguns to be such. Likely they would find the right to possess AW to be a lower level right which would require the goverment to only have an "important" or "legitimate" reason to limit them.
    "A Man you can bait with a tweet can't be trusted with nuclear weapons"

  4. #54
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    Re: Are gun owners STILL paranoid?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The first question that the Supreme Court addresses in analysis is whether the right infringed upon is a "fundamental" right or a lower level right.

    Assuming for sake of argument that the Court were to find possession of assault weapons to be a "fundamental" right...(which is unlikely)...
    ... and thus, you descend into unsupportable opinion.

  5. #55
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    Re: Are gun owners STILL paranoid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    ... and thus, you descend into unsupportable opinion.
    just because you DEEM it unsupportable doesn't make it so....I actually supported my position. Perhaps you can argue why possession of assault weapons is a "fundamental right" and if so, how it will pass Constitutional Muster.
    "A Man you can bait with a tweet can't be trusted with nuclear weapons"

  6. #56
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    Re: Are gun owners STILL paranoid?

    Wherever there is a government, gun owners should always be paranoid.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

  7. #57
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    Re: Are gun owners STILL paranoid?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    just because you DEEM in unsupportable doesn't make it so....I actually supported my position
    You have not, as you have not even tried to address the specific exceptions I took with your argument to that effect.

    We were looking at rerstrictions on the 1st amendment; you were telling me how the restrictions on incendiary speech support the constitutionality of a ban on 'assault weapons'.

    Do you or do you not stand by that argument?

    If so, then address the specifics of my post.
    If you cannot address thise specifics, then concede the point.

  8. #58
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    Re: Are gun owners STILL paranoid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You have not, as you have not even tried to address the specific exceptions I took with your argument to that effect.

    We were looking at rerstrictions on the 1st amendment; you were telling me how the restrictions on incendiary speech support the constitutionality of a ban on 'assault weapons'.

    Do you or do you not stand by that argument?

    If so, then address the specifics of my post.
    If you cannot address thise specifics, then concede the point.
    I've already supported that argument, I'm not going to continue to rehash the same argument over and over just because you want to begin the argument from your original flawed premise.
    Restrictions on speech and on assault weapons can be placed because not all speech nor all weapons are considered "fundamental".

    I'm still waiting for your argument on how assault weapons are "fundamental" and assuming that they are, how do they meet Constitutional muster under a "strict scrutiny" analsysis......
    "A Man you can bait with a tweet can't be trusted with nuclear weapons"

  9. #59
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    Re: Are gun owners STILL paranoid?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The first question that the Supreme Court addresses in analysis is whether the right infringed upon is a "fundamental" right or a lower level right.

    Assuming for sake of argument that the Court were to find possession of assault weapons to be a "fundamental" right...(which is unlikely)...the next step of the analysis would be whether curtailing that right serves a "compelling" governmental interest.
    The compelling interests of government were only to be preservation of each individuals rights to life, liberty, and property. and none is to be restricted in favor of another.



    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    One of the main compelling arguments would be that assault weapons place law enforcement at risk. Do you recall the North Hollywood shootout in LA?
    Law Enforcement were held off for hours because they could not match the shooting power of the men with the assault weapons.
    That is a red herring. Fear is never a good reason to restrict rights of individuals.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Regardless...it is unlikely that the Court would ever find possession ofassault weapons to be a "fundamental right". It was difficult for them to find possession of handguns to be such. Likely they would find the right to possess AW to be a lower level right which would require the goverment to only have an "important" or "legitimate" reason to limit them.
    The rights that we have were meant to be inalienable, undeniable. There can be no logical argument as to why they are restrict able.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #60
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    Re: Are gun owners STILL paranoid?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I've already supported that argument
    I must have missed it. What post number?
    Please link to the post that addresses the issues I raised.

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