View Poll Results: What will be GWB's legacy?

Voters
35. You may not vote on this poll
  • A great and inspired world leader

    0 0%
  • A man who accomplished much but failed to live up to his complete potential

    3 8.57%
  • A man who may have had good ideas but failed to accomplish much

    10 28.57%
  • A man with lack of ideas and accomplished very little

    6 17.14%
  • A complete and utter failure who drove this country to the brink of bankruptcy

    16 45.71%
Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456
Results 51 to 59 of 59

Thread: GWB's Legacy

  1. #51
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    America (A.K.A., a red state)
    Last Seen
    09-24-13 @ 11:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,317

    Re: GWB's Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    It was Reagan's decision. The resolution wasn't binding.

    How could Ann Coulter miss an opportunity to bash liberals?

    Media Matters - Days after claiming Reagan brought "historic pause" to Islamic terrorism against U.S., Coulter suggested Reagan's actions in Beirut helped bring about 9-11
    She didn't. She was the one who first brought the fact that Democrats forced Reagan into retreating to my attention:

    Treason. Pg. 137.

    She also points out that Reagan responded by saying that House Speaker Tip O'Neil (D) "may be ready to surrender, but I am not." It was only after Democrats poured on the pressure that he was politically forced to retreat. Kind of like Bill Clinton and the welfare reforms he vetoed again and again, before being forced to sign, and then taking credit for.

    And how hilariously weak that your only comeback for my point about Democrats always groveling and surrendering to America's enemies is that Reagan once (allegedly) acted like a Democrat.

    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner (paraphrasing James Bovard).

  2. #52
    Bus Driver to Hell
    Thorgasm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:36 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    66,689

    Re: GWB's Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    She didn't. She was the one who first brought the fact that Democrats forced Reagan into retreating to my attention:

    Treason. Pg. 137.

    She also points out that Reagan responded by saying that House Speaker Tip O'Neil (D) "may be ready to surrender, but I am not." It was only after Democrats poured on the pressure that he was politically forced to retreat. Kind of like Bill Clinton and the welfare reforms he vetoed again and again, before being forced to sign, and then taking credit for.

    And how hilariously weak that your only comeback for my point about Democrats always groveling and surrendering to America's enemies is that Reagan once (allegedly) acted like a Democrat.

    It had nothing to do with Lebanon's govt. failing?

    C'mon, Reagan's decision followed the resignation of Lebanese President Amin Gemayel's cabinet Feb. 5 and a military collapse that left Muslem militiamen in control of western and southern Beirut.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



  3. #53
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    48,269

    Re: GWB's Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    You've cited not one single example or reason why an incredibly unpopular president seen as fighting an outrageous war of aggression (Lincoln) cannot be compared to...an incredibly unpopular president seen (falsely) as fighting an outrageous war of aggression (Bush).

    Try again.
    Do you really see no difference between the Civil War and the Iraq war? If not, there's no hope because you are hopelessly partisan and won't see the forest for the trees.

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    Yes, liberals lied pathologically about everything involving the war. And Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, hence the reason no one accused him of causing it-another thing liberals continuously lie about.
    There was no connection between why we went into Afghanistan in retaliation for 9/11 and why we went into Iraq. Iraq had nothing to do with the war on terror. He wasn't connected, he wasn't hiding terrorists, he wasn't doing anything but running his mouth about crap. He didn't have WMD's, he didn't pose a threat to the US, there was no reason to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    Wrong again. We found terrorists there, even notorious terrorist fugitives like Abu Abbas, when we invaded. The 9/11 Commission Report also extensively links him to terrorists, as well as does his open terror-sponsoring. Another perfect example of something liberals lie through their teeth about at every turn.
    There were no terrorist camps there before we went it. There was no major terrorist activity or presence before we went there. The only thing you have to link to terrorism at all was that he offered money to the families of suicide bombers, but there was no training camps or other activity of the sort there before we went in. And the only reason he offered money was because he was a dick.

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    You've made your first accurate statement since this exchange began. Unfortunately, after 15 years of failed diplomacy, in a post-9/11 world, any WMD were too much for Saddam to have.
    Too bad he didn't have any.

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    And we were greeted as liberators, contrary to pathological liberal lying. So please, stop spreading misinformation. Also, we were authorized by UN Resolution 1441 to act.
    Propaganda and misdirect. Are we still liberators or occupiers? And the UN holds no sovereignty. Funny how people will use it in one instance and rally against it in another. Hypocrisy is all it is, blind partisan hypocrisy.

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    Nearly everyone looks at it with partisan glasses, involuntarily and unknowingly, because they have been so systematically misled at every turn by the news media. You are so utterly misinformed that objectivity looks like bias to you.
    Pot meet kettle.

    More misinformation.

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    We lost fewer troops in the first four years of “peace” under Bill Clinton than in five years of heavy fighting in Iraq.
    Wait...your defense is that we lost fewer troops in 4 years under Clinton than we did in 5 years in Iraq? Who says I condone what Clinton did? He misused the military almost as grievously.

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    And there were people just like you who peddled this same shortsighted isolationist drivel about uprooting Hitler. It is people like you who history will look down on, not those with the spine and the intelligence to act.
    Though there are those like you whom are unwilling to accept responsibility for actions. We've been screwing around in an area for decades, you think it's ok and that negative feelings towards Americans is uncalled for. The shortsighted and childish reaction with no plan or ability to comprehend consequences. Nothing but big government warmongering happily lapped up by the blind partisan lap dogs of the parties.

    And WTF did Hitler have anything to do with this. That's just appeal to emotion.

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    Democrats have tried to force us to betray our allies and lose this war at every turn (as always). No reasonable person could expect a little thing like victory to deter them from finding a way to surrender it to Islamic terrorists at this point. It's simply what liberals do.
    And nothing more than partisan hackery and drivel. Good job showing a complete lack of objectivity and rational response.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #54
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    America (A.K.A., a red state)
    Last Seen
    09-24-13 @ 11:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,317

    Re: GWB's Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    It had nothing to do with Lebanon's govt. failing?

    C'mon, Reagan's decision followed the resignation of Lebanese President Amin Gemayel's cabinet Feb. 5 and a military collapse that left Muslem militiamen in control of western and southern Beirut.
    Of course it didn't. That civil war had been going on for almost a decade, and it had never been clear from one moment to the next who was going to take over. Democrats had been undermining any and every U.S. response to the attacks for months before that government fell.

    Reagan and the leader of France had developed a plan to launch a crippling strike on Islamic Revolutionary Guard positions and were ready to proceed until Democrats started with their trademark terror-apologist menstrating about us daring to fight back.
    Last edited by aquapub; 01-22-09 at 07:00 PM.
    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner (paraphrasing James Bovard).

  5. #55
    Bus Driver to Hell
    Thorgasm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:36 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    66,689

    Re: GWB's Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    Of course it didn't. That civil war had been going on for almost a decade, and it had never been clear from one moment to the next who was going to take over. Democrats had been undermining any and every U.S. response to the attacks for months before that government fell.

    Reagan and the leader of France had developed a plan to launch a crippling strike on Islamic Revolutionary Guard positions and were ready to proceed until Democrats started with their trademark terror-apologist menstrating about us daring to fight back.
    And you found someone to publish you.

    Only in America.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



  6. #56
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    America (A.K.A., a red state)
    Last Seen
    09-24-13 @ 11:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,317

    Re: GWB's Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Do you really see no difference between the Civil War and the Iraq war? If not, there's no hope because you are hopelessly partisan and won't see the forest for the trees.
    No relevant difference, no. And the fact that you still offer no examples and resort only to ad hominems further confirms my position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There was no connection between why we went into Afghanistan in retaliation for 9/11 and why we went into Iraq. Iraq had nothing to do with the war on terror. He wasn't connected, he wasn't hiding terrorists, he wasn't doing anything but running his mouth about crap. He didn't have WMD's, he didn't pose a threat to the US, there was no reason to go.
    Repeating lies doesn't make them true. Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, but that is the only true part of anything you have said. Saddam's terror-sponsoring regime (which DID have WMD, and WAS hiding terrorists, and HAD tried to assassinate one of our presidents) was the central battlefield in the War on Terror.

    Because, unlike liberals, who only claim to stand for diplomacy-first, as long as it can be used to oppose national defense, Republicans ACTUALLY believe in diplomacy-first, which had been tried for 15 years on Saddam and not long at all with the regimes Democrats were demanding we target. 9/11 made terror-sponsors like Saddam intolerable. He didn't have to be involved in 9/11.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There were no terrorist camps there before we went it. There was no major terrorist activity or presence before we went there. The only thing you have to link to terrorism at all was that he offered money to the families of suicide bombers, but there was no training camps or other activity of the sort there before we went in. And the only reason he offered money was because he was a dick.
    Even the 9/11 Commission Report, which was very slanted in favor of liberals, disagrees with you. Again, repeating this lie won't make it true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Too bad he didn't have any.
    Again, repeating this lie won't make it true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Propaganda and misdirect. Are we still liberators or occupiers? And the UN holds no sovereignty. Funny how people will use it in one instance and rally against it in another. Hypocrisy is all it is, blind partisan hypocrisy.
    False labeling and actual misdirect.

    Liberals treat the UN as the final word on all things. What better to debunk bogus liberal hysteria about the legality of the war than to point out that the UN authorized it? That's not hypocrisy, that's using the only moral and legal authority liberals will always recognize to validate what they refuse to acknowledge was perfectly legal.

    If FDR had gone into Germany without declaring war, would it still have been something to characterize as going "in against a sovereign nation and remov[ing] their leader, destroy[ing] their government, set[ting] up an occupying police force, etc?"

    Of course not. Have some intellectual honesty.

    The reality is, we liberated a country in which virtually everyone but Saddam's regime desperately wanted Saddam's regime gone. We were and still are liberators there to fight terrorists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    More misinformation.
    Um, sure, if by misinformation, you mean citing a provable fact. The news media delivered nearly 100% of the news on Iraq, a country the size of California, from one tiny little triangle of the country with all the problems. It would be like reporting on California only from the ghettos of LA, and only on cop-killings and gang violence. That's the kind of coverage you're accusing me of peddling misinformation for saying is imbalanced.

    This would be the same news media that buried the fact that we found WMD in Iraq, lied about Saddam's connections to terrorists, and even to al Qaida, deliberately misrepresented the Iranian terrorism campaign inside Iraq as a "hopeless civil war," was repeatedly caught peddling Soros-funded propaganda.

    Like I said, you're so brainwashed that balance looks like imbalance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Wait...your defense is that we lost fewer troops in 4 years under Clinton than we did in 5 years in Iraq? Who says I condone what Clinton did? He misused the military almost as grievously.
    No, my defense is that this war that the news media, as well as elected Democrats, kept telling us was such a disaster, actually had fewer casualties in 5 years of heavy fighting than we had in 4 years of "peace" under Clinton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Though there are those like you whom are unwilling to accept responsibility for actions. We've been screwing around in an area for decades, you think it's ok and that negative feelings towards Americans is uncalled for.
    Yes, we Republicans refuse to "take responsibility" for defending our allies in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia from an unprovoked invasion. We refuse to "take responsibility" for defending our allies in Israel from non-stop, unprovoked missile attacks and suicide bombers. We refuse to "take responsibility" for siding with Saddam against the far greater evil in Iran (i.e., shifting alliances along with our national interests like every other country on the planet).

    The things we've done in the Middle East are nothing to be ashamed of and in no way legitimize the actions of those trying feverishly to mass murder our civilians. 9/11 happened before Iraq, not after, as did decades of other unprovoked terrorist attacks against us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And WTF did Hitler have anything to do with this. That's just appeal to emotion.
    Um...he was another genocidal war-monger like Saddam who we would've been entirely justified in taking out, even without this petty technicality you dishonestly cling to about officially declaring war.

    Not rocket science.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And nothing more than partisan hackery and drivel. Good job showing a complete lack of objectivity and rational response.
    FACT: Democrats have undermined and lied about the war in Iraq at every turn.

    FACT: Democrats have tried to force surrender and defeat at every turn, even as we started to win.

    Not partisan hackery, facts, as inconvenient as they might be to actual partisan hacks.
    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner (paraphrasing James Bovard).

  7. #57
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    America (A.K.A., a red state)
    Last Seen
    09-24-13 @ 11:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,317

    Re: GWB's Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    And you found someone to publish you.

    Only in America.
    Change the subject, hurl insults. The signature of defeat.
    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner (paraphrasing James Bovard).

  8. #58
    Bus Driver to Hell
    Thorgasm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:36 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    66,689

    Re: GWB's Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by aquapub View Post
    Change the subject, hurl insults. The signature of defeat.
    I know better than to try to have an honest debate with you. You wanted to pretend that congress forced him to withdraw troops. I pointed out the resolution was non-binding. Then you lowered your standards to say that he caved to political pressure.

    I'm sure Casper Weinburger's opposition to that whole deal had nothing to do with it.

    Next you are going to tell me that the dems forced Macfarlane to be involved in Iran-Contra.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



  9. #59
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    America (A.K.A., a red state)
    Last Seen
    09-24-13 @ 11:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,317

    Re: GWB's Legacy

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    I know better than to try to have an honest debate with you. You wanted to pretend that congress forced him to withdraw troops. I pointed out the resolution was non-binding. Then you lowered your standards to say that he caved to political pressure.
    I never said, or even implied that Congress passed a law to force it. I even spelled out that it was just like how Clinton was politically forced to pass the welfare reforms he later took credit for.

    YOU made that assumption and used it to falsely accuse me of being dishonest. Try again.

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    I'm sure Casper Weinburger's opposition to that whole deal had nothing to do with it.


    You're peeing in the wind here. I pointed out that liberals always grovel and surrender to our enemies. Your big counterpoint was that Reagan too (allegedly) acted like a Democrat once-as if that makes Democrats any less treasonous. And when I pointed out the enormous political strong-arm tactics Democrats used to force Reagan to reverse course and withdraw, you hurled smears and brought up that one of Reagan's advisors once acted like a Democrat.

    Way to miss the point...repeatedly.

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Next you are going to tell me that the dems forced Macfarlane to be involved in Iran-Contra.
    That's moronic. Democrats were the ones Reagan had to work around to defend America (as always). I would never give them credit for that heroic act of patriotism.
    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner (paraphrasing James Bovard).

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •