View Poll Results: Political Islam or liberal Democracy. Which is better?

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  • Political Islam

    3 15.00%
  • Liberal Democracy

    11 55.00%
  • Unable to choose, both are good

    0 0%
  • Unable to choose, both are bad

    1 5.00%
  • Other (Specify)

    5 25.00%
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Thread: Political Islam or liberal Democracy. Which is better? Why?

  1. #11
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    Re: Political Islam or liberal Democracy. Which is better? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    My God, yes.

    We debate at the periphery of the matter all the time but never deal with the real issue.

    Here, I will get it started.

    Islam is the will of Allah.

    Liberal democracy is an invention of man.

    Islam must be better because it is divinely ordained.

    Right?
    Yes, that is correct. Political Islam is clearly better. Since this was a serious poll and not just random trolling, surely you'd like to discuss that point rather than just assuming I'm being sarcastic. Correct?
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  2. #12
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    Re: Political Islam or liberal Democracy. Which is better? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    Why do many athiests and non-Christians defend Islam by claiming Christianity is just as bad? I see that quite often.
    Christianity is just as bad. The Bible contains as much if not more violence carried out or sanctioned by God as does the Quran. Read up on the endless genocides of Joshua if you don't think so. If Christianity was made into law we would have a society every bit as bad as the Taliban. The difference is that we have a separation of church and state, not that a Christian theocracy would be superior to a Muslim theocracy.
    So the question actually should be, what is superior, Liberal democracy or theocracy? And the answer of course is liberal democracy because its principles are based in reality, not in fables. And its codes of conduct are based in morality and engineered towards the equitable and efficient functioning of the state whereas the codes of conduct found within a theocracy are based in dogma and geared towards an alleged reward beyond this world.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Political Islam or liberal Democracy. Which is better? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by faminedynasty View Post
    Christianity is just as bad. The Bible contains as much if not more violence carried out or sanctioned by God as does the Quran. Read up on the endless genocides of Joshua if you don't think so. If Christianity was made into law we would have a society every bit as bad as the Taliban. The difference is that we have a separation of church and state, not that a Christian theocracy would be superior to a Muslim theocracy.
    So the question actually should be, what is superior, Liberal democracy or theocracy? And the answer of course is liberal democracy because its principles are based in reality, not in fables. And its codes of conduct are based in morality and engineered towards the equitable and efficient functioning of the state whereas the codes of conduct found within a theocracy are based in dogma and geared towards an alleged reward beyond this world.
    You're confused. Joshua is a book in the Old Testament. Christianity is the New Testament. The New Testament teaches the precepts of Christianity, not the Old Testament. Jesus is the God of Christianity. I hope that helps.

    This should also help you understand: Violence in the Bible – how should we respond?
    Last edited by walleye; 01-18-09 at 05:07 PM.

  4. #14
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    Re: Political Islam or liberal Democracy. Which is better? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yes, that is correct. Political Islam is clearly better. Since this was a serious poll and not just random trolling, surely you'd like to discuss that point rather than just assuming I'm being sarcastic. Correct?
    It comes down to your belief in a divinity. If you believe in one Supreme Being then His laws should reign supreme.

    But wait a minute, if our God gives us free will and doesn't impose His will except in mysterious ways, then our liberal Democracy is just as 'right' as political Islam.

    Could it be that it boils down to choice and a coin flip?

    Ford vs Chevy? Betty vs Veronica? Coke vs Pepsi?

    OBL 11/24/02

  5. #15
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    Re: Political Islam or liberal Democracy. Which is better? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by faminedynasty View Post
    Christianity is just as bad. The Bible contains as much if not more violence carried out or sanctioned by God as does the Quran. Read up on the endless genocides of Joshua if you don't think so. If Christianity was made into law we would have a society every bit as bad as the Taliban.

    The difference is that we have a separation of church and state, not that a Christian theocracy would be superior to a Muslim theocracy.

    So the question actually should be, what is superior, Liberal democracy or theocracy? And the answer of course is liberal democracy because its principles are based in reality, not in fables.

    And its codes of conduct are based in morality and engineered towards the equitable and efficient functioning of the state whereas the codes of conduct found within a theocracy are based in dogma and geared towards an alleged reward beyond this world.
    But what if that is the way the God named Allah wants us to live?

    Maybe he wants us to be bigoted toward all except those who are Muslim.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Political Islam or liberal Democracy. Which is better? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    Christianity is the New Testament.
    Oh? Well you guys will surely then be surprised to know that that old testament book, which, as you assert has nothing to do with Christianity, is being stapled to the new testament and issued as one book! Scandal!!!!
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  7. #17
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    Re: Political Islam or liberal Democracy. Which is better? Why?

    "When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15)."


    Question: "Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law?"

    Answer: The key to understanding this issue is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to make the Israelites know how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments for example), some of them were to show them how to worship God (the sacrificial system), some of them were to simply make the Israelites different from other nations (the food and clothing rules).

    None of the Old Testament law applies to us today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15).

    In place of the Old Testament law, we are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) which is to, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:37-40).

    If we do these two things, we will be fulfilling all that Christ wants for us to do, “This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). Technically, the Ten Commandments are not even applicable to Christians. However, 9 of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day).

    Obviously, if we are loving God we won't be worshipping other gods or worshipping idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we won't be murdering them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them. So, we are not under any of the requirements of the Old Testament law. We are to love God and love our neighbors. If we obey those two commands faithfully, we will be upholding all that God requires of us.
    Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law?
    Last edited by bhkad; 01-18-09 at 06:54 PM.

    OBL 11/24/02

  8. #18
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    Re: Political Islam or liberal Democracy. Which is better? Why?

    Representative Republic or Constitutional Republic.

  9. #19
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    Re: Political Islam or liberal Democracy. Which is better? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by faminedynasty View Post
    Oh? Well you guys will surely then be surprised to know that that old testament book, which, as you assert has nothing to do with Christianity, is being stapled to the new testament and issued as one book! Scandal!!!!
    Well then you know very little about the true nature of Christianity or what Jesus taught.

    You can keep guessing, but it just makes you look ignorant on the subject.

    It also has little to do with the OP's original post and this thread.

  10. #20
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    Re: Political Islam or liberal Democracy. Which is better? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by faminedynasty View Post
    Oh? Well you guys will surely then be surprised to know that that old testament book, which, as you assert has nothing to do with Christianity, is being stapled to the new testament and issued as one book! Scandal!!!!
    Yes, I know it is one book. The difference is there are 2 covenants (testaments). The first one is dead. The second one is alive and the one Christians live under. The New Testament is the Christian church. The only thing the Old Testament is used for is to show us history, Psalms for praise and lessons of God's judgment and mercy. Christians do not live under the dietary or other laws of the Old Testament. The New Testament teaches those laws were nailed to the cross with Jesus and judged along with Jesus. Every person was judged with Jesus on that cross. If you accept it then you have eternal life. If you don't, then you will have to take the judgment because you reject God's. I hope that helps.
    Last edited by walleye; 01-18-09 at 08:38 PM.

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