View Poll Results: The primary source of job losses is...

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  • Technology (Automation)

    8 18.18%
  • Offshoring (Outsourcing)

    13 29.55%
  • Other

    23 52.27%
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Thread: Primary Source of Job Losses

  1. #71
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I'm glad he did otherwise I wouldn't have had the pleasure of reading your shining defense of free-trade and capitalism. Good show.

    UNNACCEPTABLE!!!
    Free trade is the single most important economic policy for a nation's long-term success IMO. People can quibble about whether the top tax rate should be 35% or 39%, but that's trivial compared to the enormous effect of free trade. I don't understand why anyone would want protectionist policies which would destroy our trade with the rest of the world.
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  2. #72
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Free trade is the single most important economic policy for a nation's long-term success IMO. People can quibble about whether the top tax rate should be 35% or 39%, but that's trivial compared to the enormous effect of free trade. I don't understand why anyone would want protectionist policies which would destroy our trade with the rest of the world.
    Doesn't free trade go hand in hand with the idea of free markets? I've always wondered why so many supposed free market defenders, hate FTA's.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Doesn't free trade go hand in hand with the idea of free markets? I've always wondered why so many supposed free market defenders, hate FTA's.
    Depends on whose free trade. Free trade where we pay no tariffs to export is fine and dandy. Free trade where we levy no tariffs on imports is rather more troublesome. Switch the "we" to the nationality of your choice and the relationship still holds.

  4. #74
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Doesn't free trade go hand in hand with the idea of free markets? I've always wondered why so many supposed free market defenders, hate FTA's.
    Some of them go off the deep end and think that FTAs are a conspiracy to implement a one-world government. Or they harbor the fantasy that we can have free trade without free trade agreements.

    What the world needs are more FTAs like NAFTA and the EU. I would love to see the United States work with other nations to develop a FTAA (Free Trade Area of the Americas) and a free trade agreement with Japan and the EU.
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  5. #75
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Depends on whose free trade. Free trade where we pay no tariffs to export is fine and dandy. Free trade where we levy no tariffs on imports is rather more troublesome. Switch the "we" to the nationality of your choice and the relationship still holds.
    If we are levying tariffs on our imports, other nations WILL retaliate by charging tariffs on our exports. Everyone wins when no one has any trade barriers...and a free trade agreement is the best way to accomplish that.
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If we are levying tariffs on our imports, other nations WILL retaliate by charging tariffs on our exports. Everyone wins when no one has any trade barriers...and a free trade agreement is the best way to accomplish that.
    As a matter of practical reality, you are correct.

    Doesn't change people from wanting the best of both worlds though.

    The trouble starts when folks and politicians talk themselves into believing they CAN have the best of both worlds.

  7. #77
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Free trade where we levy no tariffs on imports is rather more troublesome.
    Doesn't that counter the idea of a free market system, by artifically increasing the price of a product through taxes/tariffs?
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Doesn't that counter the idea of a free market system, by artifically increasing the price of a product through taxes/tariffs?
    Absolutely. But keep in mind that free access to suppliers is the consumer's desire, and free access to customers is the supplier's desire. A domestic supplier naturally wants tariffs on imports to make his goods more price competitive, thus enlarging his domestic market. A domestic consumer naturally opposes tariffs to lower prices overall, thus enlarging his range of purchasing choices. Exporters want low tariffs in other countries, while importers want low tariffs in their own country. Domestic workers want tariffs to make their labor more competitive vis-a-vis imports.

    The optimal mediation of these competing desires is indeed a totally free market (assuming that all goods are equal, perfect substitutes, and of positive value; in reality markets are a bit more complex than this), but it represents an overall compromise between the competing desires of market participants. Lack of domestic tariffs does not fully satisfy the domestic supplier, but as it also allows him to import raw materials at lower cost than would be the case under a tariff regime, he still benefits. Lack of foriegn tariffs opens up foreign markets to suppliers, which makes goods somewhat more scarce (and pricey) in the domestic market. Elimination of tariffs lowers barriers to entry into markets, but lowers barriers to exporting not just goods but production of goods as well, adding competitive pressure to laborers.

    Depending on where one stands in a particular economic equation, one can be either helped or hindered by tariffs in the short term, and thus may favor or disfavor a particular tariff in the short term.

    A free market is the ideal, but for any person in any particular immediacy, free markets may plausibly seem to be less than ideal. The challenge for political leaders is to remind and persuade everyone that, over the long term, free markets are a net positive to everyone.

  9. #79
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Some of them go off the deep end and think that FTAs are a conspiracy to implement a one-world government. Or they harbor the fantasy that we can have free trade without free trade agreements.

    What the world needs are more FTAs like NAFTA and the EU. I would love to see the United States work with other nations to develop a FTAA (Free Trade Area of the Americas) and a free trade agreement with Japan and the EU.
    I suppose, but ironically, actual free trade (not the guise of managed trade masquerading as free) can't exist until there is a one world government. There will always be security issues that bar the transfer of goods and services as well as information from country to country as well as enforcement mechanisms to prevent dumping from one country into another. With one world government, there isn't a threat of a foreign government in which to deny weapons sales not to mention that the sole world government is the only one really buying the stuff anyways.

    Even our free trade agreements with Europe don't allow us to transfer certain materials, knowledge and goods.
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I suppose, but ironically, actual free trade (not the guise of managed trade masquerading as free) can't exist until there is a one world government. There will always be security issues that bar the transfer of goods and services as well as information from country to country as well as enforcement mechanisms to prevent dumping from one country into another. With one world government, there isn't a threat of a foreign government in which to deny weapons sales not to mention that the sole world government is the only one really buying the stuff anyways.

    Even our free trade agreements with Europe don't allow us to transfer certain materials, knowledge and goods.
    So you think it should be all or nothing? If not, what's your point?

    For those advocating outsourcing be outlawed, should foriegn owned companies be barred from outsourcing to the US?

    .

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