View Poll Results: The primary source of job losses is...

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  • Technology (Automation)

    8 18.18%
  • Offshoring (Outsourcing)

    13 29.55%
  • Other

    23 52.27%
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Thread: Primary Source of Job Losses

  1. #51
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Largely because you do not understand.
    No, because I do not like corporate scumbags getting rich while working class people lose their jobs.


    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Why? If another country can do it better, faster and cheaper, why should we force American citizens to pay more for inferior goods?
    Tech support IS NOT A PRODUCT. The products being supported WERE CREATED IN THE UNITED STATES ... why shouldn't tech support be here as well?

    It's a huge disservice to Americans to outsource those jobs. It's nothing more than a few overpaid assholes sacrificing the working class to increase their profits. I find this offenseive, dispicable, and COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Because....? If Americans want to get paid 10 times they need to be 10 times as efficient.
    We're not talking about manufacturing. We're talking about tech support. This does not require greater effeciency. The ourtsourcing of these jobs is nothing more than a profit increaser.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post

    Furthermore many firms send jobs overseas because they can effectively operate a 24 hour workday. That's powerful stuff.
    They send the jobs overseas so they can pay less and work people like slaves without being subject to legal reprecutions.

    It's nothing more than corporate sponsorship of sweatshop labor.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    So you are saying that the US government should mandate that Americans be forced to pay for inferior goods at higher prices merely so that their fellow citizens can have a job?
    Again --- for the third time .... WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PRODUCTS. We're talking about technical support for software products.

    Americans need those jobs. We need to have a way to feed our children and pay our rent. Big business needs to be banned from sending those jobs overseas JUST TO INCREASE THEIR PROFITS.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    That's welfare.
    No. I am not talking about a handout... I am talking about a hand UP. I am not asking for a freebee! I am asking for the right to work and earn a living. American companies need to be employing Americans first.

    Outsourcing of these types of jobs is nothing more than a profit-maximization tool.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post

    You keep saying it's unacceptable but you give absolutely no reason why we should do it other then for welfare reasons.
    It's not welfare --- that is a term corporate douchebags use when they get called out by people who are tired of their nonsensical bull****.

    It's leaving those jobs in the United States so that Americans have the opprotunity to earn a living. Big business needs to be legally prohibited from increasing their profits (and the size of their bonuses) by causing abject poverty that essentially kills the middle class.

    It's bull**** and it needs to be stopped.

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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    The money whores he refers to are most likely the financiers whose jobs have nothing to do with creating jobs, but creating wealth for insiders who do nothing more than manipulate the markets. Bill Gates is filthy rich, but he deserves it. Bernie Madoff is, or lived, filthy rich, but he stole it.
    Greed is stupid. You can only spend so much. What is the point being a billionaire if all you do is hoard it?
    I know an ACCOUNTANT who charges $125.00 per hour and he`s quite possibly under paid,(just works his tail off...7 days a week)and produces a good product. Money Whores are NOT just those at the top. Its often the small business owner who wants to pay nothing for something,relatively speaking. The guy or gal with one or more college degrees and working for very low wages,no insurance,no sick pay,no vacation pay ,no holliday pay,no hope for a retirement,no gifts under the christmas tree...,no tree for many this year ,"These are blatant symptoms of the money whores prevalence in America today". Somewhere in the neighborhood of 10% of the population has 90% of the wealth. Accurate or not ,it isn`t BS either ,It is a symptom of the prevalence of the money whore. We either deal with the absolute imbalance and lack of fairness or accept that 40 % of America will be without insurance,they wont buy cars or homes,many will live on the street. Starvation ,all forms of suffering ,death on the street...Its happening NOW folks. Im not `OUT THERE`.I`m not high. I`m not a commie. I`m an unemployed ,multi train,highly skilled American on the recieving end of the money whores greed and excess,simple as that. WE are all being victemized by this guy. BTW Thank You Utah Bill. "STINKING RICH MONEY WHORES are NOT KEEPING OUR ECONOMY STRONG,THEY ARE DESTROYING IT...FOR PROFIT. Trust Me.

  3. #53
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    No, because I do not like corporate scumbags getting rich while working class people lose their jobs.




    Tech support IS NOT A PRODUCT. The products being supported WERE CREATED IN THE UNITED STATES ... why shouldn't tech support be here as well?

    It's a huge disservice to Americans to outsource those jobs. It's nothing more than a few overpaid assholes sacrificing the working class to increase their profits. I find this offenseive, dispicable, and COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.



    We're not talking about manufacturing. We're talking about tech support. This does not require greater effeciency. The ourtsourcing of these jobs is nothing more than a profit increaser.



    They send the jobs overseas so they can pay less and work people like slaves without being subject to legal reprecutions.

    It's nothing more than corporate sponsorship of sweatshop labor.



    Again --- for the third time .... WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PRODUCTS. We're talking about technical support for software products.

    Americans need those jobs. We need to have a way to feed our children and pay our rent. Big business needs to be banned from sending those jobs overseas JUST TO INCREASE THEIR PROFITS.



    No. I am not talking about a handout... I am talking about a hand UP. I am not asking for a freebee! I am asking for the right to work and earn a living. American companies need to be employing Americans first.

    Outsourcing of these types of jobs is nothing more than a profit-maximization tool.



    It's not welfare --- that is a term corporate douchebags use when they get called out by people who are tired of their nonsensical bull****.

    It's leaving those jobs in the United States so that Americans have the opprotunity to earn a living. Big business needs to be legally prohibited from increasing their profits (and the size of their bonuses) by causing abject poverty that essentially kills the middle class.

    It's bull**** and it needs to be stopped.
    VADER,I have been getting lengthy in my posts. PLease let it suffice,"You know what you are talking about". Cyber space doth harm the American work force. One of my areas of expertise is ,"allied Health". I found out that many of these mega-corps we still call hospitals ,are outsourceing the reading of X-rays. Yes there are radiologists unemployed.... The American product has always been the Gold Standard of quality. Anyone contending that goods made in PhuKIng China ,even moderately compare to American quality,is deludeing his or her self to verify that,"We the People" suck as manufacturers so they can remain unsciounable as they turn their backs on Americas work force.

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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    You're missing something key. Automated telephone boards resulted in thousands of telephone operators being fired. One backhoe eliminated hundreds of diggers. One long shore man in a crane eliminated thousands of off loaders. Automated payroll systems got rid of plenty of book keepers. The computer annihilated the type writer industry.

    This isn't a discussion about net jobs as we all know that technology can create jobs. It's about whether or not outsourcing rather then technology is a bigger detriment to jobs losses.

    NAFTA cost the US 250,000 jobs in total. That's about the normal amount lost in an average economy in a few months due to normal business factors. How many manual labor jobs did automation destroy overall? Got to be in the hundreds of millions over time.
    Bottom line the problem is still about the MONEY WHORES. Trade imbalance ,and tarifs ,and designed obsolesence As ordered by corporate America) ,and the notion that the American work force SUDDENLY rated ,"NOT WORTHY", are all symptoms of Money Whores takeing as massive a slice as they can out of America and all the global Slave markets they`ve created FOR PROFIT ,(in the last three or four decades ,and accelaerated into the new millenium). IF TECHNOLOGY HAS IRETRIEVABLY REPLACED ME AS A NECESSARY ENTITY IN THE LABOR SET, THEN I WANT THE GOVERNMENT AND ALL THE MONEY WHORES TO GET TOGETHER AND CUT ME A CHECK FOR..., ANNUAL VACATIONS,INSURANCE,NEW CARS ,BOATS ,GASOLINE,GUNS AND AMMO ,QUALITY FOOD ,AND ANY ,AND ALL GOODS NECESSARY TO A GOOD LIFESTYLE,( EMPHASIS ON "GOOD LIFESTYLE). We are on the threshhold of this kind of socialist greed if the money whores ,and the governments which serves only them ,don`t fix what they`ve broken...soon.

  5. #55
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    No, because I do not like corporate scumbags getting rich while working class people lose their jobs.
    Yet ONCE AGAIN you still have not offered a single word of criticism for these same "corporate scumbags" replacing American workers with robots, which causes a lot more job losses than The Big Bad Furriner. Why is this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    Tech support IS NOT A PRODUCT. The products being supported WERE CREATED IN THE UNITED STATES ... why shouldn't tech support be here as well?
    That doesn't make any sense. Please explain the logical connection between the two.

    "Product" can mean goods or services. I assume that was the sense in which he was using the word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    It's a huge disservice to Americans to outsource those jobs. It's nothing more than a few overpaid assholes sacrificing the working class to increase their profits. I find this offenseive, dispicable, and COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.
    Yet you're OK with them doing the same thing, provided that the job recipient is a robot rather than an Indian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    We're not talking about manufacturing. We're talking about tech support. This does not require greater effeciency. The ourtsourcing of these jobs is nothing more than a profit increaser.
    So? What's wrong with that? Does automation not increase profits too?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    They send the jobs overseas so they can pay less and work people like slaves without being subject to legal reprecutions.

    It's nothing more than corporate sponsorship of sweatshop labor.
    Nations don't usually become wealthy until after they go through a "sweatshop" phase. See the United States, Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, and Taiwan for examples. You have the luxury of criticizing "sweatshop labor" on your personal computer from your middle-class home while eating as much as you want, but those people who work in what you term "sweatshops" need those jobs a lot more than Americans do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    Again --- for the third time .... WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PRODUCTS. We're talking about technical support for software products.
    It really doesn't matter what industry we're talking about, outsourcing is a net positive across the board.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    Americans need those jobs. We need to have a way to feed our children and pay our rent. Big business needs to be banned from sending those jobs overseas JUST TO INCREASE THEIR PROFITS.
    A) As I've already illustrated, it's impossible to point to any specific act and label it as outsourcing. B) Those foreign workers need the jobs a lot more than you do. C) Companies are under no obligation to provide you with a job. D) There is nothing wrong with them cutting costs to increase their profits. E) Outsourcing makes goods and services cheaper for the end consumer, which raises the standard of living.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    No. I am not talking about a handout... I am talking about a hand UP. I am not asking for a freebee! I am asking for the right to work and earn a living. American companies need to be employing Americans first.
    Why do they need to be employing American workers first? What makes you so special? And are you gonna define "American companies"?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-18-09 at 08:15 PM.
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  6. #56
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Rodney, you are bitter.

    Consider clinging to guns and religion.
    From the ashes.

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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Rodney, you are bitter.

    Consider clinging to guns and religion.
    I am bitter as hell ,and a good shot. Jesus is a no-show. I will deal with these issues to the best of my growing abilities. Keep your head down there snyper.

  8. #58
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodney View Post
    ...and outsource ,to have the technologies replaceing people ,manufactured. I agree 100% with you but close behind is the money whores of Wall Street,corporate leaders,and investors turning their back on WE the PEOPLE. I am very well educated ,and very talented ,and very unemployed ,and very very angree at the money whores. By any other name ....
    Come again? GE manufactures a great many automated systems within the US. Those provide many direct jobs and millions of indirect jobs. Without these sector, GE would be comparatively smaller and there would be fewer of such jobs.

    So you're saying that Wall Street should accept inferior products and higher prices with significant reductions in returns so that Americans can have obsolete jobs?

    That's welfare.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    No, because I do not like corporate scumbags getting rich while working class people lose their jobs.
    Blah, blah, blah.

    Tech support IS NOT A PRODUCT.
    Actually it is. It a product line for many firms. You are confusing tangible with intangible.

    why shouldn't tech support be here as well?
    Because it's expensive? It's not cost effective? It can be done cheaper elsewhere?

    It's a huge disservice to Americans to outsource those jobs
    Perhaps to some. Personally, foreign tech support IMO is terrible in the cases I had to use it (airline lost baggage).

    It's nothing more than a few overpaid assholes sacrificing the working class to increase their profits. I find this offenseive, dispicable, and COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.
    Sacrificing the working class? So you are for more government restrictions on what firms can do with their own money.

    S-O-C-I-A-L-I-S-T


    We're not talking about manufacturing. We're talking about tech support. This does not require greater effeciency. The ourtsourcing of these jobs is nothing more than a profit increaser.
    Actually we were talking about all off-shoring. Perhaps for tech support now that you have unilaterally changed the subject, it may be the case. But that's not true for everything.

    They send the jobs overseas so they can pay less and work people like slaves without being subject to legal reprecutions.

    It's nothing more than corporate sponsorship of sweatshop labor.
    Like slaves? Maybe in a Nike factory, that's hardly they call centers of India. Those are air conditioned, high relative pay and good if not a bit strange hours.

    And what's wrong with sweatshop labor? Would you rather have them being prostitutes?

    Again --- for the third time .... WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PRODUCTS. We're talking about technical support for software products.
    Care to point that out in earlier posts? It appears you changed the subject without informing anyone of that.

    Americans need those jobs. We need to have a way to feed our children and pay our rent. Big business needs to be banned from sending those jobs overseas JUST TO INCREASE THEIR PROFITS.
    Oh wow. You are a Socialist. It doesn't make sense to keep tech support here based on the cost. If we followed through with your plan, we'd ban all off shoring. Then we'd be essentially a closed economy.

    No. I am not talking about a handout... I am talking about a hand UP. I am not asking for a freebee! I am asking for the right to work and earn a living. American companies need to be employing Americans first.
    Incorrect. You are supporting welfare. You sole reason is to keep Americans in their jobs. You made no argument other then that for why we should essentially ban trade. That's welfare. You want us to buy from only American despite higher prices and inferior goods just to keep people employed. That's welfare. The only difference is that instead of taxing us and giving money, we are forced to buy our products from them at higher prices for crappy goods. Same outcome.

    Your entire argument is welfare.

    When you have something other then welfare, state it.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post

    Actually it is. It a product line for many firms. You are confusing tangible with intangible.
    No, I am not.


    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Because it's expensive? It's not cost effective? It can be done cheaper elsewhere?
    Sure at the cost of American jobs. Stop being a corporate mouth piece. American companies have a duty to their country. Americans should be doing those jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Perhaps to some. Personally, foreign tech support IMO is terrible in the cases I had to use it (airline lost baggage).
    Yeah ... I agree. Microsoft's offshore tech support is pure ****.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Sacrificing the working class? So you are for more government restrictions on what firms can do with their own money.
    S-O-C-I-A-L-I-S-T
    I am for keeping jobs in this country. I am for preventing the middle class from disappearing. I am for laws that keep corporate greedmongers in check.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Actually we were talking about all off-shoring. Perhaps for tech support now that you have unilaterally changed the subject, it may be the case. But that's not true for everything.
    We? I take it you're a corp-ro-nazi! No wonder you see no reason to keep the middle class working.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Like slaves? Maybe in a Nike factory, that's hardly they call centers of India. Those are air conditioned, high relative pay and good if not a bit strange hours.
    Still --- those jobs belong in America. Americans deserve those jobs. The middle class MUST be maintained ... even if some big business asshole doesn't get a six figure bonus.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    And what's wrong with sweatshop labor? Would you rather have them being prostitutes?
    Sweatshop labor is the same as SLAVE LABOR. You should be ashamed of yourself for asking that question.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Care to point that out in earlier posts? It appears you changed the subject without informing anyone of that.
    No, you changed it, I changed it back.


    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Oh wow. You are a Socialist. It doesn't make sense to keep tech support here based on the cost. If we followed through with your plan, we'd ban all off shoring. Then we'd be essentially a closed economy.
    No. It makes you a pro-business neo con who cares more about profits than his own country. You should be ashamed of yourself.


    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Incorrect. You are supporting welfare. You sole reason is to keep Americans in their jobs. You made no argument other then that for why we should essentially ban trade. That's welfare. You want us to buy from only American despite higher prices and inferior goods just to keep people employed. That's welfare. The only difference is that instead of taxing us and giving money, we are forced to buy our products from them at higher prices for crappy goods. Same outcome.
    Again ... WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PRODUCTS. We're discussing technical support and the IT industry.

    Also ... it is not welfare ... that is an excuse used by neocon big business douchebags who don't care home many lives they destroy as long as the get a big bonus.

    There is more to life than profit and its time the neocon assholes of this world figured that out.

    Your entire argument is pro-neocon and **** Americans.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    When you have something other then welfare, state it.
    When you can do something besides tounge the anus of greedy corporate criminals we can finish this conversation. Until then ... spare me your neoconist, anti-American bull****.
    Last edited by Vader; 01-19-09 at 02:05 AM.

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