View Poll Results: The primary source of job losses is...

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  • Technology (Automation)

    8 18.18%
  • Offshoring (Outsourcing)

    13 29.55%
  • Other

    23 52.27%
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Thread: Primary Source of Job Losses

  1. #11
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    My thought on the true cause of job loss in the United States is corporate greed.

    Outsourcing outside the United States needs to be outlawed. This will make it impossible for disgusting, greedy, corporate asshats to send American jobs overseas.

    This will keep Americans working and stimulate the economy in the process.

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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Outsourcing and Technology are essentially the same from an economic standpoint. It's finding a more efficient way to produce a product.

    Here is a video about a plant in Brazil. The unions will not let Ford do the same thing here.

    YouTube - detnews.com - Ford's most advanced assembly plant operates in rural Brazil



    My thoughts are that the primary loss of jobs is due to bad government fiscal and economic policies. Businesses generally strive to produce more, which, in general, employs more people. Government has other agendas that do not consider the effects on businesses.
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Historically, technology. In recent years in the US, perhaps you could make an argument that outsourcing has had a bigger effect. Perhaps not.

    And guys: Massive job loss happens. It is an inherent element of capitalism. It is an inevitable negative result of some of capitalism's best features. It is the consequence of innovation. If you do not have massive job loss in your country, you do not have innovation, and you probably don't have capitalism. All of us could go on and on about issues concerning the negative effects of government intervention in the work place, but it is not the primary cause of job loss.

    Some number of years ago almost everyone in America farmed for a living. Over time, developments came into place that allowed fewer people to grow and harvest a greater number of crops more efficiently. Because of this more people were able to eat more for cheaper, and many people found they were no longer able to make a living farming. Over time, those people found other things they were able to sustain themselves by doing. Some of them may not have, and suffered for the rest of their lives. This is tragic, but it is an unavoidable result of the entire world moving forward for the better. See also: Industrial revolution, invention of the printing press, textile industry migration, the ends of any number of wars.

    We can debate reasonably about how far we should lend a hand to the victims of innovation. Some of you would say not an inch, which is fine. But, at the end of the day, hard-working people sometimes get layed off because an industry moves forward (or across an ocean). We accept this, see what we can do about it post-firing; or we advocate international protectionism and the stifling of innovation.

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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Outsourcing outside the United States needs to be outlawed.
    That is neither possible nor practical. If Acme Widgets lays off a worker in their Detroit plant and hires another worker with the same job title in their Shanghai plant, was that job outsourced? What if there's a six-month gap between the layoff and the hiring? What if there's a twelve-month gap? What if the job titles aren't the same, but the job functions are similar?

    Even if one wanted to, it's impossible to point to any individual act and call it "outsourcing." Besides, outsourcing is a great thing for our economy and for the economies of other nations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    This will make it impossible for disgusting, greedy, corporate asshats to send American jobs overseas.
    But you have no problem at all with disgusting, greedy corporate asshats giving American jobs to robots? Should automation be outlawed too?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    This will keep Americans working and stimulate the economy in the process.
    Economies are much stronger when they trade freely with one another and are allowed to allocate their resources efficiently. American workers should seek better training and move to industries where Americans have the competitive advantage, instead of asking the government to shield them from market realities.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-15-09 at 08:15 AM.
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    I would say the primary source of job loss is technology, but not in the option you've offered. The employee who cannot adapt and/or increase his productivity through experience will eventually lose his job. Every industry is increasingly utilizing new technologies. Gone are the days when you can do the same job for 40 years. One of the drawbacks (benefit imo) of living in a prominent developed country.
    correct, technology makes us more productive, allows fewer people to get more done in a shorter time.
    I would say that outsourcing, done by management to save money, is a bigger factor. Henry Ford paid more than the going wage so his employees could afford to buy what they were building. The modern corporate world doesn't have Henry's vision....
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    correct, technology makes us more productive, allows fewer people to get more done in a shorter time.
    I would say that outsourcing, done by management to save money, is a bigger factor. Henry Ford paid more than the going wage so his employees could afford to buy what they were building. The modern corporate world doesn't have Henry's vision....
    While I agree that outsourcing is a big part of job loss today, I don't associate that with corporate greed, its capitalism. Henry Ford was an admirable man during the depression but his business practice is clearly obsolete in the 21st century. In the information age the employee has limitless potential (with adequate motivation) and does not need handouts from Henry.

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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    While I agree that outsourcing is a big part of job loss today, I don't associate that with corporate greed, its capitalism. Henry Ford was an admirable man during the depression but his business practice is clearly obsolete in the 21st century. In the information age the employee has limitless potential (with adequate motivation) and does not need handouts from Henry.
    are you suggesting that technology replacing the worker IS corporate greed?
    Surely it is capitalism as well....

    the employee is a long term expense, as GM has discovered. You work them for 40 years, then they retire and become a drag on your profits for another 30 years....
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    are you suggesting that technology replacing the worker IS corporate greed?
    Surely it is capitalism as well....

    the employee is a long term expense, as GM has discovered. You work them for 40 years, then they retire and become a drag on your profits for another 30 years....
    No

    I was just making clear that Henry Ford's feel good business manner is wrong for today's economy. The modern employee should not expect to stay at the same job for 40 years, they must adapt.

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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    The IRS is the primary source of job losses. See business are leaving the US because every business decision that is made is made in the light of how will this affect me tax burden. Many business are leaving because of the intrusive IRS. Voluntary tax is what they call it, Ed Brown can tell you that it's not voluntary oh, wait no he can't he's in jail over tax matters. He did not harm anyone he just did not pay a "voluntary" tax. So as a business owner, if I cannot afford to pay taxes I cut jobs, If I cannot make a profit I cut more jobs trying to stay afloat, if that does not work I bring my business to a place where I am not taxed to pay for people who want handouts because the government keeps telling them they are entitled to it. There is a better way.
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    Re: Primary Source of Job Losses

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    No

    I was just making clear that Henry Ford's feel good business manner is wrong for today's economy. The modern employee should not expect to stay at the same job for 40 years, they must adapt.
    The modern job may need the modern employee, but there will still be plenty of other "old fashioned" jobs that don't need the modern employee.
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