Onion Eater
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I get the impression you are infering the IDF doesn't do that, when in fact, they do.Onion Eater, your misrepresentations have already been debunked on another thread.
This is just disgusting!
What's even more disgusting is Israel claiming they need to do this.IDF to appeal human shield ban
The Israeli Defence Ministry will appeal against a supreme court ruling banning the use of Palestinian human shields in raids, officials said
Defence Minister Shaul Mofaz is prepared to make a personal appearance in court to defend the practice, ministry officials added.
**** like this makes the UN sorry it ever created the state of Israel.
I get the impression you are infering the IDF doesn't do that, when in fact, they do.
It depends on how you define "debunk". His article also said...No, Billo, I said that his misrepresented assertion was debunked in another thread. Here is the link to the post:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/1057879964-post638.html
There is a difference between what he is asserting and what is occurring.
And I posted 3 examples of them doing it in Gaza recently....human rights groups insist the IDF continues to use it, although they acknowledge the number of instances has dropped sharply
It depends on how you define "debunk".
It is well known that the IDF uses captured civilians as human shields when raiding a house. They tie them together and push them forward, firing their M-16s over the prisoner's shoulder. Wikipedia has a lengthy article about this, including links to videos of it being done: Human shield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Does Hamas launch rockets from positions near civilian structures like schools? Maybe. I have no way of knowing. But, I should point out, the Gaza Strip and particularly Gaza City is one of the most densely populated areas on Earth. At Gaza we read, "Covering a land area of 360 sq. km (approximately twice the size of Washington, DC) with a population of nearly 1.4 million, the Gaza Strip is a narrow sliver of land."
Within such tight confines, it is hard not to be near a school or some similar civilian structure.
See, this is the problem with only posting half the information. You come across as stating a valid position, but upon further examination, your position is faulty and easily dismissible. If you read the article you quote, you would notice that not only has the practice been outlawed by the Israeli Supreme Court, but Israeli commanders have been arrested and suspended for such actions since.
Of course, Palestinians still use their civilians as human shields, and of course the Palestinian government does nothing to reprimand or consequence them for it. You conveniently forgot to include all of these salient points. Your position on this has now been sufficiently watered down to hold no merit towards your claim.
Indeed.
For reference, here is my original post:
And here is the so-called "debunking" of it:
In 2002, the IDF dropped a GBU-24 on an apartment building in the middle of the night, which killed eight children and seven adults, and injured over 150 other people. See the description of this attack at Matar et al v. Dichter.
You tell me, oh master debunker, was Salah Shehade "hiding behind civilians" when he was assassinated in his own home with a 2000-pound bomb? Rhetorical question: If I went to your home at three in the morning and throw grenades through your windows, killing your entire family, and then appeared in court saying, "It's not my fault that he chose to hide behind civilians," would I skate like Dichter?
While he received a slap on the wrist for this assassination, Avi Dichter is still a free man and is, in fact, working closely with the US Department of Homeland Security, who is interested in emulating is success at assassinating people without any messy legal complications. That would make their job so much easier, you know!
"In the international arena, Dichter believes that it is essential to build a network of nations dedicated to counter-terrorism and crime-fighting to confront the emerging network of international terror and crime. In this capacity Minister Dichter has led the warming of professional relations with many partners across the globe including the signing of cooperation agreements with the US Department of Homeland Security as well as with other counterparts from Canada and countries in the European Union." - Wikipedia
[youtube]eTGbP55HGi8[/youtube]
It appears that it is not Israeli policy to use human shields, but it also appears that occasionally some of the Israeli troops have done this, but that the Israeli governemnt has taken steps against the soldiers who do this.
Anyone using civilians as human shields is wrong, regardless of what side they are on. If Israel at least tries to punish those who do so, they are acting appropriately.
Israel's Supreme Court on Thursday banned the military's practice of using Palestinian civilians as "human shields" in arrest raids, saying it violates international law.
The ruling was a rare instance in which the court agreed to take a stand in Israel's conflict with the Palestinians.
The Supreme Court has often deferred to security arguments, despite international condemnation of Israel. For example, the high court thas upheld practices such as targeted killings of Palestinian militants.
Human rights groups filed the petition in May 2002, in response to the army's use of Palestinian civilians in dozens of instances during West Bank arrest operations. In August 2002, the court issued a temporary injunction against the practice. Human rights groups have said the military has repeatedly violated the ban since then.
In Thursday's final ruling, the court said the practice amounts to a "slide down the slope toward a severe violation of international law."
Effie Eitam, an Israeli lawmaker and a former general, lambasted the judges.The army had argued that the practice should be permissible in some cases, in order to prevent possible shootouts and bloodshed. Israeli hard-liners said the new restrictions would make it more difficult for the army to act against militants.
However, the three-judge panel said international law clearly prevents the army from using civilians in its military activities. "No one among the civilian population should be `volunteered' to cooperate with the army," wrote Judge Aharon Barak. "The central tenet is that it is mandatory to distance innocent local residents from the area of the hostile actions."
"This ruling ties the hands of the army," Eitam told Army Radio. "The judges are cut off from reality since we are located in the center of the world struggle of terror groups against free and democratic societies."
I imagine it does happen. Much happens in war that is unsavory.I post four videos of IDF soldiers taking neighborhood children hostage and forcing them to open doors while the IDF aims their rifles over the child's shoulder and the best response that you can come up with is mawkish propaganda piece showing some Palestinian children playing with toy guns while "twinkle, twinkle little star" plays repetitively in the background? Pathetic.
I post four videos of IDF soldiers taking neighborhood children hostage and forcing them to open doors while the IDF aims their rifles over the child's shoulder and the best response that you can come up with is mawkish propaganda piece showing some Palestinian children playing with toy guns while "twinkle, twinkle little star" plays repetitively in the background? Pathetic.
Wouldn't the Israeli Supreme Court be an arm of the Israeli governemnt? If so, then the Israeli Government acted appropriately.
That there are some members of the governemtn who are guilty of advocating the heinous use of human shields is a reflection on those particular individuals more than the government itself, IMO.
I was thinking separation of powers where the executive branch is separate from the judicial branch. The IDF argued for it in the law suit with.
The politician comment, the 3rd qoute was his opinion and occured after the judgement.
Your true underlying intent here is to take isolated incidents and portray these as standard practice and official policy.
Human rights groups filed the petition in May 2002, in response to the army's use of Palestinian civilians in dozens of instances during West Bank arrest operations. In August 2002, the court issued a temporary injunction against the practice. Human rights groups have said the military has repeatedly violated the ban since then.
I post four videos of IDF soldiers taking neighborhood children hostage and forcing them to open doors while the IDF aims their rifles over the child's shoulder....
But teh fact would remain that the Governemnt took steps to abolish teh practice, IMO. I think that this was appropriate.
And that opinion is deplorable, IMO.
I did my tour with the IDF and then some. You?Are you sure that these are isolated incidents?
I did my tour with the IDF and then some. You?