Should AIPAC be outlawed in US?

[Billo_Really]

We got enough problems dealing with other governments, we don't need to deal with them within our own government. I'm sick of foreign goverments creating lobby groups in the US to enact legislation that benefits their agenda to the detriment of US interests.

It is not in the interest of the US to stand by Israel and shield them from being held responsible for their atrocities and armed aggression. I don't want my tax dollars going to spending time on Capitol Hill to find ways that allow Israel to violate international law.

So I think their lobby group AIPAC, should be outlawed and prevented from lobbying any member of Congress.

 

[RightinNYC]

What about every other interest group that lobbies Congress, representing basically every country on the planet? Is there something specific about AIPAC that you find objectionable, as opposed to everyone else?

 

[Orion]

I don't think they should be outlawed, but their powers equalized to that of all other foreign lobbying groups. IMO I think they get special privileges.

 

[rathi]

Outlawing interest groups you disagree with is not compatible with U.S. democracy. I wouldn't outlaw a Nazy lobbying group, despite an obvious hatred of everything they stand for. You don't get to suppress political groups just because you don't like their message. Democracy requires you stand and give rights to everyone, not just people you like and agree with.

 

[Dezaad]

I don't think they should be outlawed, but their powers equalized to that of all other foreign lobbying groups. IMO I think they get special privileges.

What special privileges do they get?

 

[new coup for you]

I don't see why any foreign country should be allowed to have lobbying groups. It's circumventing the foreign policy process.

 

[Hatuey]

I don't see why any foreign country should be allowed to have lobbying groups. It's circumventing the foreign policy process.

I agree. Ban One. Ban All.

 

[Billo_Really]

What about every other interest group that lobbies Congress, representing basically every country on the planet? Is there something specific about AIPAC that you find objectionable, as opposed to everyone else?

How about I answer that this way?

I think they ought to make it a law that all campaign contributions should be made anonimously. This will nuetralize the influence all lobby groups have on Washington and level the playing field.

 

[1069]

I don't know much about the issue, but it would seem to make sense that they all be treated equally. If any are receiving special privileges, then I don't agree with that at all.

 

[Joby]

I think AIPAC is different than other foreign lobbies because they have the power to have us give them weapons. We make everybody else buy theirs, which at least means they aren't ripping us off.

But no, they shouldn't be banned. But in the future, former leaders of the group should be banned from CNN.

 

[Zyphlin]

How about I answer that this way?

I think they ought to make it a law that all campaign contributions should be made anonimously. This will nuetralize the influence all lobby groups have on Washington and level the playing field.

So you will answer it by basically avoiding the question completely and going on a different tangent?

 

[RightinNYC]

I don't see why any foreign country should be allowed to have lobbying groups. It's circumventing the foreign policy process.

I agree. Ban One. Ban All.

AIPAC, like all lobbying groups, is an American lobbying group. It is comprised of American citizens and is entirely funded by its members. It does not receive any financial support from any foreign government. The fact that they advocate for policies that support Israel doesn't change the fact that they're simply exercising their right to petition the government like all citizens.

Actual entities of foreign agents DO have to register under the Foreign Agents Act and are restricted in what they can do.

How about I answer that this way?

I think they ought to make it a law that all campaign contributions should be made anonimously. This will nuetralize the influence all lobby groups have on Washington and level the playing field.

Considering that AIPAC is not a political action committee, and thus doesn't make any campaign contributions, I don't understand what relevance this statement has to this thread.

 

[new coup for you]

The AIPAC is a leash made of money that the entire American congress heels too like a pathetic lap dog.

 

[RightinNYC]

The AIPAC is a leash made of money that the entire American congress heels too like a pathetic lap dog.

And you're basing this on....?

Lobbying Spending Database | OpenSecrets

edit: AIPAC averages a little over $1m per year in lobbying:

Lobbying Spending Database-American Israel Public Affairs Cmte, 2008 | OpenSecrets

That doesn't get them anywhere near the top 20, or probably even the top 100.

Lobbying Spending Database | OpenSecrets

 

[new coup for you]

I'm basing it on the Ribicoff Amendment that basically made it illegal for Americans to boycott Israel. As well as our complete subservience to that nasty little nation despite it not serving our interests remotely.

 

[RightinNYC]

I'm basing it on the Ribicoff Amendment that basically made it illegal for Americans to boycott Israel. As well as our complete subservience to that nasty little nation despite it not serving our interests remotely.

And you're attributing those things entirely to AIPAC?

 

[Billo_Really]

Considering that AIPAC is not a political action committee, and thus doesn't make any campaign contributions, I don't understand what relevance this statement has to this thread.

Why else would they have influence with government officials if they didn't contribute to their coffers. No one in government is going to listen to a special interest group without some sort of personal benefit. And I'm not talking about bribery. There is a reason why Washington listens to special interest. And that reason always is based monetarily.

 

[RightinNYC]

Why else would they have influence with government officials if they didn't contribute to their coffers. No one in government is going to listen to a special interest group without some sort of personal benefit. And I'm not talking about bribery. There is a reason why Washington listens to special interest. And that reason always is based monetarily.

Uh, what?

This isn't a matter of opinion or of what seems to make sense to you - it's a matter of fact. AIPAC doesn't make campaign contributions, period. I'm sorry that that doesn't fit into your narrative, but them's the breaks.

 

[Billo_Really]

So you will answer it by basically avoiding the question completely and going on a different tangent?

Alright, have it your way.

The difference is:

• American interest groups contacting their elected representatives about issues important this country.
• Alien groups contacting another country's leaders that DO NOT represent them about issues important to their country.

I can live with the American lobby groups as being a necessary evil in this country. I don't believe in other nations trying to dilute my Constitutional right to representation by having lobby groups in this country. If they want to influence my leaders, they can do it at a summit meeting.

 

[Billo_Really]

Let me put it this way, AIPAC is making the US government more loyal to Israel than it is to the United States.

AIPAC can go to hell!

 

[Billo_Really]

Uh, what?

This isn't a matter of opinion or of what seems to make sense to you - it's a matter of fact. AIPAC doesn't make campaign contributions, period. I'm sorry that that doesn't fit into your narrative, but them's the breaks.

I'm not going to play word games with you.

This conversation is over!

 

[Simon W. Moon]

I have long been a fan of removing the ability of any artificial person to lobby govt at any level. So, I say why stop at lobbies for foreign countries?

From a game theory perspective it breaks the game. Govt becomes more beholden to lobbying groups than to its actual electorate or real persons.

I think lobbying groups should have to lobby the electorate directly. This would serve to lessen the impact of rational ignorance that allows and fosters poor govt actions and policies.

 

[Billo_Really]

I have long been a fan of removing the ability of any artificial person to lobby govt at any level. So, I say why stop at lobbies for foreign countries?

From a game theory perspective it breaks the game. Govt becomes more beholden to lobbying groups than to its actual electorate or real persons.

I think lobbying groups should have to lobby the electorate directly. This would serve to lessen the impact of rational ignorance that allows and fosters poor govt actions and policies.

Why stop there?

Is there any way we can repeal the law that gives corporations the same rights as living, breathing, human citizens.

 

[RightinNYC]

Alright, have it your way.

The difference is:

• American interest groups contacting their elected representatives about issues important this country.
• Alien groups contacting another country's leaders that DO NOT represent them about issues important to their country.

I can live with the American lobby groups as being a necessary evil in this country. I don't believe in other nations trying to dilute my Constitutional right to representation by having lobby groups in this country. If they want to influence my leaders, they can do it at a summit meeting.

...Except it's not an alien group, and the people contacting their representatives are US citizens who have all the same rights as you do. You just want them to be silenced because you don't agree with them.

I'm not going to play word games with you.

This conversation is over!

:rofl I think I've heard this refrain from you before...

 

[RightinNYC]

I have long been a fan of removing the ability of any artificial person to lobby govt at any level. So, I say why stop at lobbies for foreign countries?

From a game theory perspective it breaks the game. Govt becomes more beholden to lobbying groups than to its actual electorate or real persons.

I think lobbying groups should have to lobby the electorate directly. This would serve to lessen the impact of rational ignorance that allows and fosters poor govt actions and policies.

It's not the artificial persons that are doing the lobbying, it's US citizens employed by that artificial person:

Lobbying Spending Database-American Israel Public Affairs Cmte, 2008 | OpenSecrets

Why stop there?

Is there any way we can repeal the law that gives corporations the same rights as living, breathing, human citizens.

Corporations don't have the same rights as citizens.