View Poll Results: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

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  • Captivate

    10 9.26%
  • Convert

    36 33.33%
  • Kill

    29 26.85%
  • None of the Above

    43 39.81%
  • Other (Specify)

    12 11.11%
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Thread: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

  1. #671
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    I completely disagree. The Bible was written after Hammurabi's Code.
    How can that be when the Israelies came from Egypt? Anyways, the books of Moses is from about the exact same time.
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  2. #672
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    How can that be when the Israelies came from Egypt? Anyways, the books of Moses is from about the exact same time.
    Care to prove that one? Hammurabi's Code was written in 1760 BCE
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  3. #673
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    How can that be when the Israelies came from Egypt? Anyways, the books of Moses is from about the exact same time.
    Not according to most mainstream scholars.

    There's about 1000 years between them. Even assuming Mosaic authorship, there is still about 500 years between them making the Hammurabi's Code older.
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  4. #674
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Care to prove that one? Hammurabi's Code was written in 1760 BCE
    Care to prove what? The Israelis did come from Egypt, they were slaves there and were released. 1391 BC, sorry, had the timing confused because of Abraham.

    Anyways it highly unlikely Moses ever had contact with the Hammurabi code when he came from Egypt, all the way across on the other side of the "known" world.

    I doubt Egypt adopted the code of a rival faction in just 500 years and adopted those so that Moses would have learned it from them.
    Last edited by Maximus Zeebra; 02-10-09 at 05:44 PM.
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Care to prove what? The Israelis did come from Egypt, they were slaves there and were released.
    Prove this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Anyways, the books of Moses is from about the exact same time
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  6. #676
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    I don't see what the point of this sillyness is? Is someone suggesting Hammurabi's Code is as influential in Western history, tradition and culture as the old testament?
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  7. #677
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    How should I interpret that? You do not support homosexuality and sex change operations and such savagery neither?
    I do not support authoritarian, PC support for minorities like special hate laws when existing laws serve where thet are needed or the rest of the New Labour/EUroplot support for minorities over the majority of Englishmen.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  8. #678
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I don't see what the point of this sillyness is? Is someone suggesting Hammurabi's Code is as influential in Western history, tradition and culture as the old testament?
    Hypothetically speaking, if it influenced the old testement, or perhaps some other code that did not survive the ages influenced the OT, then yes it would be as influential in a way.

    The real point being made is that many things in the Old Testement were not "new" ideas that nobody had ever thought of before. It is unlikely that they were created in a vacuum.

    The argument that the Old Testement has primacy with regards to influencing the western world assumes that it was a form of revolutionary thought.

    The evidence of pre-existing doctrines similar to the Old Testement in nature would imply that this concept is untrue. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that the OT was simply a mode of conveyance for even older concepts that pre-date the OT. If the concpets are not unique to the OT, then the OT did not influence the culture, it only was the means by which the older concepts were introduced to the culture that were influenced.

    Think of it this way, if I were to write a text book that described Einstein's Theory of Special relativity, and that text book were used widely, an reading that text book and learning about special relativity greatly influenced people for centuries to come, it would not be me that influenced them, it would have been Einstein.

    My textbook would only be the force that facilitated that influence.
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  9. #679
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Hypothetically speaking, if it influenced the old testement, or perhaps some other code that did not survive the ages influenced the OT, then yes it would be as influential in a way.
    It wouldn't really be just as influential, it would be influential perhaps though.
    The real point being made is that many things in the Old Testement were not "new" ideas that nobody had ever thought of before. It is unlikely that they were created in a vacuum.
    A lot of it is pretty basic stuff like "though shalt not kill". They were created as party of society which had its own dynamics and had most probably had contact with others.
    The argument that the Old Testement has primacy with regards to influencing the western world assumes that it was a form of revolutionary thought.

    The evidence of pre-existing doctrines similar to the Old Testement in nature would imply that this concept is untrue. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that the OT was simply a mode of conveyance for even older concepts that pre-date the OT. If the concpets are not unique to the OT, then the OT did not influence the culture, it only was the means by which the older concepts were introduced to the culture that were influenced.
    I wouldn't necessary say that. The old testament, wherever its ideas came from, is a piece of literature and scripture that has had a major influence on many people and societies in the West arranging certain different ideas in a very distinctive way, in a very distinctive narrative. Sure it may be interesting to trace some of these further but it doesn't change the fact that it was Hebrew literature and not Summerian or Egpytian that has had the massive influence from the 4th century in the West.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  10. #680
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I wouldn't necessary say that. The old testament, wherever its ideas came from, is a piece of literature and scripture that has had a major influence on many people and societies in the West arranging certain different ideas in a very distinctive way, in a very distinctive narrative. Sure it may be interesting to trace some of these further but it doesn't change the fact that it was Hebrew literature and not Summerian or Egpytian that has had the massive influence from the 4th century in the West.

    But the fact that the concepts within are not universally influential (shellfish anyone?) means that if the ideas that WERE influential came form other sources originally, then those other sources had more influence than the OT did.

    That's why I chose a textbook for my example, instead of a book about relativity only. It may contain dozens of other concepts besides relativity, but if the future generations are only really influenced by relativity, then only Einstein did the influencing.
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