View Poll Results: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

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  • Captivate

    10 9.26%
  • Convert

    36 33.33%
  • Kill

    29 26.85%
  • None of the Above

    43 39.81%
  • Other (Specify)

    12 11.11%
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Thread: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

  1. #111
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    none of the above - you are trying to assign human ambitions to non human entities.

  2. #112
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    Cool Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    Many of them Avoid getting into religious conversations, thats where I got my Idea .
    But there is no problem as long as they dont show hatred or spread their Ideas among society.
    Yeah, that is what I thought:

    “...if I see an article about Christians being put on trial in a certain country for just simply spreading the word, carrying out their religion, and the accusers themselves make no accusation of the Christians using force, oppression or persecution I will have to look in the Koran to see what it says about forcing religion on others. I would like to know where in the Koran it says that Christians can’t practice their religion, which requires the spreading (not by force) of the word, because if Islam is afraid of the Christian word then Islam is insecure in it‘s beliefs? By understanding the word I can know whether the Islamic country allegedly doing the persecution is following their religion, which can’t be a true religion if it must be forced (a faith is not a faith if it must be forced), and whether those being persecuted were violating their social contract, and then can judge how my country should respond if it‘s citizens are involved.” (posted August 30, 2001 10:35 PM) {Bold emphasis added for those without a faith, whose handle is not the firmest}

    You make a good argument in favor of supporting Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish home able to prevent the spread of the ideas of Islam, which is not a faith just like atheism. We wouldn’t want the guy on our Islam TV who quoted last night from the Gospel , word for word the “Golden Rule,” to deceive the little Jewish kiddies with what the Koran (Ideas) obviously lacks in faith.

    “005.032
    YUSUFALI: On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.
    PICKTHAL: For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.
    SHAKIR: For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.” CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

    I really loved the way our local Mr. Rogers of Islam TV had no problem mentioning Israel in a program about the current war, but avoided mentioning Hamas’ murder and corruption when mentioning Palestinians. I wouldn’t even know Hamas existed listening to that sweet soft voice without a faith.

  3. #113
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by DivineComedy View Post
    Yeah, that is what I thought:

    “...if I see an article about Christians being put on trial in a certain country for just simply spreading the word, carrying out their religion, and the accusers themselves make no accusation of the Christians using force, oppression or persecution I will have to look in the Koran to see what it says about forcing religion on others. I would like to know where in the Koran it says that Christians can’t practice their religion, which requires the spreading (not by force) of the word, because if Islam is afraid of the Christian word then Islam is insecure in it‘s beliefs? By understanding the word I can know whether the Islamic country allegedly doing the persecution is following their religion, which can’t be a true religion if it must be forced (a faith is not a faith if it must be forced), and whether those being persecuted were violating their social contract, and then can judge how my country should respond if it‘s citizens are involved.” (posted August 30, 2001 10:35 PM) {Bold emphasis added for those without a faith, whose handle is not the firmest}
    thanks for your opinion DC,
    But I hadn't said christians musn't spread their Ideas, and so did the Islam, But am talking about certain rules in here.
    Like: (you are an Athiest,you are free in that,but dont spread your Ideas into our society, because we are faithful society,Like how we leaves you, leave us)

    Another thing, Islam isnt forcing anyone to get into it or sth. , the best evidence about it is that Christians, Sieks, Hindus ... are living between us peacefully since our Prophet's existance.

    Many verses in Koraan hadn't been translated in a right way into English, thats why many thinks that these verses holds aggression to certain religions.

    And like you said : faith is'nt faith if forced, its true, thats why we dont force anybody to get in Islam.

    A part of our Beliefs : "Variety of religions is so acceptable in Islam"

    So we believe that we cannot force everyone to get into Islam.

    Unfortunately, Politics and media nowadays are the ones who ruined the Image of our religion.

  4. #114
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Are you serious ?..ever ?
    The last thing any sane man wants is to have anyone "rule" him...particularly a Muslim.
    These are good reasons for the popularity of Zen-Buddhism..
    I consider myself to be a Deist.....to hell with religion..
    No, I was actually just laughing at that particular view that someone even think thats remotely possible, even in their fantasy.

    I am independently moderate religious btw, since we are discussing our religious stands.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  5. #115
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightOfCenter View Post
    Yeah because the majority is always right.
    Thanks GOD you admit it.

  6. #116
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    Cool Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post

    Unfortunately, Politics and media nowadays are the ones who ruined the Image of our religion.
    It is perfectly understandable to me for a country or state with a majority of Muslims to prohibit the pornography of disrespecting Islam or the prophet, just like I would not care if our state established that people (John Edwards) talking to the dead for money is fraud; it is a long argument involving states rights and the reason why the word “Congress” is in our First Amendment. We are free in our homes but according to the wording of the Constitution we are not always free to be Digambara at a little league game, if you know what I mean and know what the Digambara are.

    I fully understand the concept of when in Rome do as the Romans do. There is a social contract.

    CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

    I understand that translations can be misinterpreted, as Atheists do with the Bible all the time; you and any of us can be misinterpreted:

    “The fact that so few Moslems are around here makes you an opportunity I don’t want to pass up. Reading foreign translated words can be easily misinterpreted without someone there to help, I went over some of those quotes several times. Without help there is no way for me to know what a ‘companion of the flame‘ or ‘companion of the name‘ is.” (posted September 01, 2001 12:03 AM)

    That was in the last post before 9/11 in a topic called "new colored forum please," which was in response to a topic started by me called “Colored Forum” in a religion forum due to being unable to post verses in a topic on the Taliban. No answers followed. Such an event and the total lack of instruction is not very conductive to us understanding whether we can trust that Muslims truly have no designs to subject us to humiliation.

    You said: “Unfortunately, Politics and media nowadays are the ones who ruined the Image of our religion.”

    Unclear communications from those who can read the Books can do that too. And simply running away and not confronting people with what Muslims believe to be the truth can only let the bad image spread.

    Such a sentence as yours in a topic about Islam’s main goal, and not about society (your government), easily looks like you are saying Islam restricts free of speech and does not allow the spread of ideas:

    “But there is no problem as long as they dont show hatred or spread their Ideas among society.”

    To get a response, a defense, I sometimes will be rude, crude, and socially unattractive. Some people cannot handle that. I applaud you for sticking around to explain things to us.
    Last edited by DivineComedy; 01-13-09 at 07:01 PM.

  7. #117
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    Thanks GOD you admit it.


    I'm going to assume you are not representative of all Arabs.

    If you were they would blow themselves up every time they tried to launch a rocket into Israel.
    Quote Originally Posted by SWM
    I never thought infanticide could be so delicious.

  8. #118
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    Cool Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    Thanks GOD you admit it.

    Some people in the West do not understand their own Constitution. I used to live in a dry county, but now some would claim that is un-American.

    Republics are not simply meant to exist for picking state flowers, they are there as a Christian understanding of the Golden Rule, that majorities are different and want different cultural states:

    “The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.” LII: Constitution

    Your majority may not want to see hot babes topless at the beach, squirming their cute little thong butts in your face, with lipstick to imitate the blood aroused hole, just begging for us to grab their hair and thrust, but mine may find it okay for women to strut like baboons for lust in our hearts leading to thinking of them as sex objects; which majority is right?

    “But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.” (Leviticus 19:34)

    From the point of view of the Golden Rule in politics between nations, “Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets,” it could be asked, “why should our majority government respect your majority government when your majority government will not respect mine or others?“

    We only become arrogant and disrespect the Golden Rule when we demand all states ruled by a majority must conform to what we think is right. Such judgments should be left to God.

    Majority rule does not though absolve nations of their crimes, such as supporting international terrorism or repression of their people (such as by Iraq). If you want to own the land you must police it or someone else will.

    “Praise be to Allah, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: ‘But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)’; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped, Allah who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders.” World Islamic Front Statement Urging Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders

    That is incompatible with the Golden Rule, and the fact that the majority of Muslims have failed to capture them does not make me want to accuse Bush of incompetence in a hostile swamp.

    It is convenient and worthy of a religion bent on conquest to accuse other nations of killing innocent people when they are trying to stop corrupt mischiefmakers. And sneaky to expect foreigners to separate out all the innocent from the guilty, when they do not know the lay of the land or cannot tell a woman or child from a veiled salami bomb (due to corruption), sacrificing innocent troops in door to door fighting. Especially, when the so-called innocent nation is NOT sacrificing innocent troops and police in policing mischiefmakers in the land they already possess and wish to maintain ownership. Convenient and sneaky...
    Last edited by DivineComedy; 01-13-09 at 09:24 PM.

  9. #119
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    Many of them Avoid getting into religious conversations, thats where I got my Idea .
    But there is no problem as long as they dont show hatred or spread their Ideas among society.
    I disagree. Most atheists I know are eager to hop into a religious debate.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  10. #120
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    Re: Which is Islam's Main Goal: To Captivate, Convert or Kill Us?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    I disagree. Most atheists I know are eager to hop into a religious debate.
    Ok, here is my story :

    I Had a smart friend his name is Haitham, he got the first above all high schools the last year with 99.7% .

    Anyway this isnt the issue,,,, once he came and introduced me to a friend "Abdul-Aziz" and told me that his new friend is his soul-twin, he thinks in everything like how he (Haitham) thinks, He is smart like how he is, he is well-cultured like him .... I told him : "then Iam history after your new friend" and both of us laughed..

    I dont see Haitham too much because we are'nt in the same College...
    Once he came to my work place asking me for a time-out, his face was a mix of worry and confusion.. we went to have dinner and then he told me that his soul-twin "Abdul-Aziz" is Athiest, and he dont know what to do.

    "Abdul-Aziz" was in vacation to Vienna, He told Haitham before he travels to think about their relationship subject until he comes.

    I talked then to Abdul-Aziz and he told me that he wont get in to any Discussions about religion, "Because I'll quit" he told me .

    I hadn't talked to Haitham till now, but I know that he is that kind of people who would never start with a breakup for any reason.

    But what did he meant by "I'll quit" ?

    Actually I took it as a joke and laughed .

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