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Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schools?

Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schools?

  • Yes, please explain)

    Votes: 5 38.5%

  • no(activist have no place in schools)

    Votes: 8 61.5%

  • maybe/I do not know

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    13
jamesrage

jamesrage

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Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schools?


I say no, activist have no business in schools period. School is about education so you can later provide for yourself,not indoctrination.


TBO.com - News From AP

NORTH WILKESBORO, N.C. (AP) -- The American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit against a rural North Carolina school system that barred a peace activist from talking to high school students about alternatives to joining the military.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

jamesrage said:
Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schools?


I say no, activist have no business in schools period. School is about education so you can later provide for yourself,not indoctrination.


TBO.com - News From AP

NORTH WILKESBORO, N.C. (AP) -- The American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit against a rural North Carolina school system that barred a peace activist from talking to high school students about alternatives to joining the military.
Click to expand...

Isn't being an activist all about "educating". Given many activists go overboard and lose sight of real education, they generally are seeking to bring a topic to the attention of the public, not indoctrinate.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

jamesrage said:
Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schools?


I say no, activist have no business in schools period. School is about education so you can later provide for yourself,not indoctrination.


TBO.com - News From AP

NORTH WILKESBORO, N.C. (AP) -- The American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit against a rural North Carolina school system that barred a peace activist from talking to high school students about alternatives to joining the military.
Click to expand...

As long as activists from both sides are invited I cant see the problem. Also i woudnt agree that merely presenting students with a given point of view amounts to indoctrination. If it does then it hasnt been very effective, as im sure many who have been to religious schools will testify.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

shiznit770 said:
Isn't being an activist all about "educating". Given many activists go overboard and lose sight of real education, they generally are seeking to bring a topic to the attention of the public, not indoctrinate.
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The problem is that activism as it stands currently is about indoctrination, wheras school is supposed to be a place of learning, not simply facts or ideas, but how to critically analyze and apply them. Activism uses half-information, propaganda, and sometimes misinformation based on opinion to get a point across, there is nothing intrinsically educational about that, so no, they shouldn't have access to institutions of learning. I apply the standard to all activists BTW, not just the one's I disagree with.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

Let the school decide who is allowed onto their campus to come and speak. They can actually vet the individual people who want to come on campus, which is a hell of a lot more accurate than us trying to generalize all activists on the internet.;) I have met plenty of activists who are reasonable people who believe in cause, and plenty who are damned crazy. This is a case where you actually have to trust the school's judgment.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

jamesrage said:
Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schools?


I say no, activist have no business in schools period. School is about education so you can later provide for yourself,not indoctrination.


TBO.com - News From AP

NORTH WILKESBORO, N.C. (AP) -- The American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit against a rural North Carolina school system that barred a peace activist from talking to high school students about alternatives to joining the military.
Click to expand...

If the military and military recruiters are allowed into the school, then yes the other side should be allowed in too.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

LaMidRighter said:
The problem is that activism as it stands currently is about indoctrination, wheras school is supposed to be a place of learning, not simply facts or ideas, but how to critically analyze and apply them. Activism uses half-information, propaganda, and sometimes misinformation based on opinion to get a point across, there is nothing intrinsically educational about that, so no, they shouldn't have access to institutions of learning. I apply the standard to all activists BTW, not just the one's I disagree with.
Click to expand...

This is a common misconception. "Activism" has a negative meaning attached to it in this day and age. I would consider MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) an activist group. They seek to bring an issue into the public eye.

Obviously there are other types of activism, which have no place in schools, but this should not restrict schools from introducing the term in a real-life way. Activism is not limited to issues of controversy, some are just to bring attention to a topic the public would otherwise be clueless to.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

jamesrage said:
Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schools?
Click to expand...

I say no. already enough time is wasted in public schools and kids are getting dumber. give them a pop quiz instead.

the only time we had military recruiters at my high school was at Career Day or college fairs, not coming to speak during class time. let the peace corps or whoever recruit kids that way. schools don't need to endorse their message by giving them exclusive time and requiring students to pay attention to their spiel. just make sure their message isn't objectionable and let them set up a table next to the army's table.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

Yes, they should. Supposedly, our schools are intended to prepare our youngest generation for the future and their careers; if those activists are from the Peace Corps or another organization that does offer a meaningful future, they should be allowed to speak and recruit on-campus.

Right next to the military, various colleges, and any other organization in which the students can find both purpose and the means to support themselves and their families.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

this from the article:

"The lawsuit, filed Monday, says the Wilkes County school district and its superintendent violated the First Amendment by preventing Sally Ferrell from distributing pamphlets and other materials that warn students to think twice before joining the military."

this is not pro-peace corps or pro-anything, it is just anti-military.

as far as I'm concerned, this lady doesn't need to be pushing her political agenda on the kids. she's not offering them any career or educational opportunities.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

emdash said:
this from the article:

"The lawsuit, filed Monday, says the Wilkes County school district and its superintendent violated the First Amendment by preventing Sally Ferrell from distributing pamphlets and other materials that warn students to think twice before joining the military."

this is not pro-peace corps or pro-anything, it is just anti-military.

as far as I'm concerned, this lady doesn't need to be pushing her political agenda on the kids. she's not offering them any career or educational opportunities.
Click to expand...

This appears to be the claim of the school. I would be curious what "disparaging the military" means. Was she lying about it or broadcasting unpleasant details and outcomes?

If her purpose is simply to advocate peace and not alternatives to the military, her material should be allowed to be filtered and reviewed by the school.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

shiznit770 said:
If her purpose is simply to advocate peace and not alternatives to the military, her material should be allowed to be filtered and reviewed by the school.
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Meh. I see no reason that the schools should cooperate in the distribution of propaganda, except for government propaganda. Only reason I support the acceptance of recruiters-- for the military as well as other organizations-- is that they provide a benefit to the students.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

Korimyr the Rat said:
Meh. I see no reason that the schools should cooperate in the distribution of propaganda, except for government propaganda. Only reason I support the acceptance of recruiters-- for the military as well as other organizations-- is that they provide a benefit to the students.
Click to expand...

that's how I feel about it.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

Korimyr the Rat said:
Meh. I see no reason that the schools should cooperate in the distribution of propaganda, except for government propaganda. Only reason I support the acceptance of recruiters-- for the military as well as other organizations-- is that they provide a benefit to the students.
Click to expand...

Yeah, propaganda is usually not beneficial to the student. I do however support having speakers come in, especially those who become activists due to personal experience. Again, these should be subject to the school's moderation as they are ultimately responsible for educating students.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

shiznit770 said:
Yeah, propaganda is usually not beneficial to the student. I do however support having speakers come in, especially those who become activists due to personal experience. Again, these should be subject to the school's moderation as they are ultimately responsible for educating students.
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Certainly. And I would argue that this is good for the students, as it exposes them to different beliefs and helps them hone the tools by which they form their own opinions.

I would like to see professional debates regularly held on campuses, between people who are sincere in their beliefs and their arguments, as an extension of classes in Philosophy or Political Science. (Or mandatory Forensic Debate, for that matter.)
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

emdash said:
this from the article:

"The lawsuit, filed Monday, says the Wilkes County school district and its superintendent violated the First Amendment by preventing Sally Ferrell from distributing pamphlets and other materials that warn students to think twice before joining the military."

this is not pro-peace corps or pro-anything, it is just anti-military.

as far as I'm concerned, this lady doesn't need to be pushing her political agenda on the kids. she's not offering them any career or educational opportunities.
Click to expand...

And some recruiters lie to boost their records and entrap youngins. Lie to them by telling them "Oh yaaaaaa. Its easy to get out. As long as you do it in the first two weeks." when really they are screwed as soon as they signed on the line. I think it is all or nothing when it comes to this topic. Everyone can or noone can.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

Recruiters who lie to enlistees should have their heads posted on pikes as a warning to the others, preferably directly in front of the recruiting station.

Nothing wrong with extolling the benefits of military services, and the various forms of compensation that the US Military offers-- but every time that we go into a war and we see all these tear-faced men and women saying "But I didn't sign up to go to war!" I can think of at least two people who should be shot for incompetence.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

shiznit770 said:
This is a common misconception. "Activism" has a negative meaning attached to it in this day and age. I would consider MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) an activist group. They seek to bring an issue into the public eye.

Obviously there are other types of activism, which have no place in schools, but this should not restrict schools from introducing the term in a real-life way. Activism is not limited to issues of controversy, some are just to bring attention to a topic the public would otherwise be clueless to.
Click to expand...
I disagree with using the term Activist in this, advocates are the ones looking to inform, activists actively do whatever it is possible to get what they want, including swaying public opinion, trying to get laws passed, outright protests, or the most extreme forms of activism, terrorist style attacks ala the ELF, some of the anti-war groups, etc. M.A.D.D. in my opinion has overstepped their bounds, they have the right to petition for DUI laws, but they use very heavy handed tactics, they have essentially seen to the end of officer discretion, in my area they will threaten elected judges with political action if they are lenient, etc. that in my opinion is not respectable. Advocates should be allowed in schools, but it should be stessed heavily that they are of an opinion, activists I feel, just don't have any credible educational value.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

LaMidRighter said:
I disagree with using the term Activist in this, advocates are the ones looking to inform, activists actively do whatever it is possible to get what they want, including swaying public opinion, trying to get laws passed, outright protests, or the most extreme forms of activism, terrorist style attacks ala the ELF, some of the anti-war groups, etc. M.A.D.D. in my opinion has overstepped their bounds, they have the right to petition for DUI laws, but they use very heavy handed tactics, they have essentially seen to the end of officer discretion, in my area they will threaten elected judges with political action if they are lenient, etc. that in my opinion is not respectable. Advocates should be allowed in schools, but it should be stessed heavily that they are of an opinion, activists I feel, just don't have any credible educational value.
Click to expand...

The root of the term is "action". Activists intentional perform an action to bring about change. As I said, the term recently has taken on a more extreme meaning and people associate it with protests and other more extreme actions.

Advocate could be a better term to describe some activists, but not all.

By saying activists do not have any credible educational value you assume an air of superiority. Just because many people believe something does not make it true or right. Activism is a unique opportunity in our country that should be encouraged. If you don't like something or disagree, then do something about it.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

shiznit770 said:
The root of the term is "action". Activists intentional perform an action to bring about change. As I said, the term recently has taken on a more extreme meaning and people associate it with protests and other more extreme actions.
Click to expand...
Not all activist action is extreme, but it seems to be a majority of the loudest ones.

Advocate could be a better term to describe some activists, but not all.
Click to expand...
I fully believe that a group can be both, but find many activists groups are loud because they are ignored, and typically, the loudest ones should be.

By saying activists do not have any credible educational value you assume an air of superiority. Just because many people believe something does not make it true or right. Activism is a unique opportunity in our country that should be encouraged. If you don't like something or disagree, then do something about it.
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Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe in the rights of advocates and activists to spread their messages, however many of the groups don't use credible tactics, which is where the problem lies, they don't encourage disagreement or forward thought, while I believe that some advocation and activist groups are honest and have integrity, I don't feel that we should allow people access to young minds on our own dollars, unless, of course, there is a counterbalance such as a debate(I think that was metioned earlier). The goal should be to enrich, not shape minds.
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Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

LaMidRighter said:
Not all activist action is extreme, but it seems to be a majority of the loudest ones.

I fully believe that a group can be both, but find many activists groups are loud because they are ignored, and typically, the loudest ones should be.

Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe in the rights of advocates and activists to spread their messages, however many of the groups don't use credible tactics, which is where the problem lies, they don't encourage disagreement or forward thought, while I believe that some advocation and activist groups are honest and have integrity, I don't feel that we should allow people access to young minds on our own dollars, unless, of course, there is a counterbalance such as a debate(I think that was metioned earlier). The goal should be to enrich, not shape minds.
Click to expand...

You're focusing on activism in the context of a controversial issue. In this area I agree that either both sides should be honestly represented or neither.

There is also activism in the context of a non-debatable issue, such as DUI. It is bad no matter how you look at it. The sister of a DUI victim came to my high school with a moving speech as a part of M.A.D.D. This had an immense and undeniably positive impact on the students of my high school.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

shiznit770 said:
You're focusing on activism in the context of a controversial issue. In this area I agree that either both sides should be honestly represented or neither.
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Agreed.
There is also activism in the context of a non-debatable issue, such as DUI. It is bad no matter how you look at it. The sister of a DUI victim came to my high school with a moving speech as a part of M.A.D.D. This had an immense and undeniably positive impact on the students of my high school.
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D.U.I. is a bad thing, but there are degrees of effects on drivers, which is why I think officers should have discretion, I also wouldn't begrudge a zero tolerance officer, but think it should be their call. M.A.D.D. used to have my respect, but they take things a little too far, I'm not going to insult them though as they have a reason and commonality for joining, and that unfortunately is the loss of a child because someone had too many, I don't believe in adding insult to injury, the advocacy that M.A.D.D and S.A.D.D. groups are involved in is inarguable beneficial, and if it saves even one life it is a great thing, I only wish they would leave it at that, or otherwise leave D.U.I. trials to the victims and their families and maybe not get involved at that level.
 
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Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

No.

School is for education, not distraction.

Reading, math and arithmetic etc. I can teach my child about the rest. No need for social mechanic's in school, but thank you.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

Blackdog said:
No.

School is for education, not distraction.

Reading, math and arithmetic etc. I can teach my child about the rest. No need for social mechanic's in school, but thank you.
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That's pretty much where I see it, the only things I'm okay with are field trips, career type stuff like having working parents/community members share their occupations, CPR class, Heimlich manuever/other emergency management, home safety classes, etc. taught.
 
Re: Should anti-military activist (let alone any activist) be allowed access to schoo

LaMidRighter said:
That's pretty much where I see it, the only things I'm okay with are field trips, career type stuff like having working parents/community members share their occupations, CPR class, Heimlich manuever/other emergency management, home safety classes, etc. taught.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I was trying with the "etc" to avoid details as people like yourself are smart enough to understand.
 
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