What Are Our Reasons That We Choose Not To Use Illegal Drugs

Maximus Zeebra · Jan 5, 2009

Ikari said:
Some of that applies to alcohol and tobacco too, should they be illegal?

As for me. The illegal drugs I've chosen not to do I've done so because they effects they have. The illegal drugs I've chosen to do I've do so because of limited negative consequence, ease of proper regulation (i.e. not using too much), and they're fun.

All those things apply to tobacco and alcohol as well.

But alcohol damages the brain and nerve system as well, something that for example Marijuana do not(but rather mutates parts of the body very slowly if frequently used).

I have seen some people who smoke marijuana/hasjis every day, all the time, for years, they change. But the same is true for tobacco especially, but also alcohol.

Maximus Zeebra · Jan 5, 2009

shiznit770 said:
My uncle kicked smoking after 60 years. Comparing numbers does little for comparison purposes since the effects are not even close to being the same.

The fact is smoking and alcohol are already ingrained in society and are far less addicting than cocaine. As I see it Marijuana is a less clear case which could result in interesting debate, Cocaine is open and shut.

Not really, the total negative effects of cocaine if it was legal(but restricted) would be less than alcohol and about the same as cigarettes.

Ps. I have also heard miracle stories about people who quit smoking, they are rare.

Ikari · Jan 5, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
something that for example Marijuana do not(but rather mutates parts of the body very slowly if frequently used).

Wait...you're saying that if I smoke pot, I'll gain super powers!? Sweet! I need to find a supplier.

Tucker Case · Jan 5, 2009

Blackdog said:
I disagree. People on cocaine are chasing a high. People using nicotine have a completely different type of addiction. People who quit cigarettes do not go into withdrawals that can kill them.

Cocaine withdrawal won't kill someone. I don;t know where you got that from.

"The withdrawal from cocaine may not be as unstable as withdrawal from alcohol."

If someone dies while withdrawing form Cocaine, then it is probably an overdose or suicide. In total, the withdrawal symptoms are very much like Nicotine withdrawal.

I guess you have never seen someone pull a knife on someone else because they would not give back a crack pipe? Never seen that happen with a cigarette, ever.

I've seen someone beat the living **** out of someone for stealing their smokes.

I've seen my brother go through heroin withdrawal more than once while attempting to get off of heroin (he's been clean for over a year and a half now). That is a real withdrawal.

I've also seen someone go through alcohol withdrawal. Looks quite the same as heroin, actually. Screaming, twitching, vomiting, violence, etc.

shiznit770 · Jan 5, 2009

Ikari said:
Some of that applies to alcohol and tobacco too, should they be illegal?

As for me. The illegal drugs I've chosen not to do I've done so because they effects they have. The illegal drugs I've chosen to do I've do so because of limited negative consequence, ease of proper regulation (i.e. not using too much), and they're fun.

Some of them do indeed apply, my list is by no means exhaustive though. Admittedly my opening statement was rash and more extreme than I intended. The argument for Marijuana is strong when compared with Cigarettes. I could live with the legalization of Marijuana, but would still support employer testing, public smoking bans, and DWI screening.

Maximus Zeebra · Jan 5, 2009

Ikari said:
Wait...you're saying that if I smoke pot, I'll gain super powers!? Sweet! I need to find a supplier.

:lol:

Well, in the cases I have seen the mutation has been mostly negative. (skin, fat, muscle and face)

Black Dog · Jan 5, 2009

Ethereal said:
Ummmmm, have you ever seen a baby that suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome or a baby that suffers from fatally low birth weights because of cigarettes? All drugs have negative side-effects. That you cannot appreciate this fact merely demonstrates your narrow-mindedness and emotional bias against pragmatic solutions.

You have got to be kidding? Your response has little to do with my reply and really ignores my response.

Ethereal said:
Think rationally. Why do you think crack (not regular cocaine) ravages communities? Because criminalizing its sale creates an unregulated black market and discourages addicts from seeking help.

Because alcoholics so readily seek help? :roll:

Ethereal said:
Do you honestly think it serves a relevant purpose to jail non-violent drug users? Can you appreciate what a jail term does to a person with a propensity to abuse drugs? What do you think criminalizing drugs actually accomplishes besides providing you with some arbitrary moral satisfaction?

Obviously you did not bother to read anything else and jumped to a silly conclusion.

Maximus Zeebra · Jan 5, 2009

shiznit770 said:
Some of them do indeed apply, my list is by no means exhaustive though. Admittedly my opening statement was rash and more extreme than I intended. The argument for Marijuana is strong when compared with Cigarettes. I could live with the legalization of Marijuana, but would still support employer testing, public smoking bans, and DWI screening.

I smoked for 6 years. I would like to see very restrictive policies on cigarettes(not so much other tobacco), perhaps only have them available at pharmacies with prescriptions for the worst addicts that cannot break the habit even after trying patches and gums and so on.

Tucker Case · Jan 5, 2009

shiznit770 said:
The fact is smoking and alcohol are ... are far less addicting than cocaine.

Do you have a source for this? My sources say the opposite.

Ethereal · Jan 5, 2009

My uncle kicked smoking after 60 years. Comparing numbers does little for comparison purposes since the effects are not even close to being the same.

Cigarettes are far more dangerous. The numbers are indisputable.

The fact is smoking and alcohol are already ingrained in society and are far less addicting than cocaine.

Far less addicting than cocaine? And you would know this how, exactly? I've tried all three of these drugs and I can tell you for a fact that quitting smoking was far harder than choosing not to use cocaine on a regular basis. The same can be said of alcohol. I will drink beer for as long as I live, can't say the same thing for cocaine. It's not the drug itself that is addicting, it's the subjective value assigned by the user to the feeling the drug illicits. Blaming drugs for the actions of the user is like blaming a woman's purse for a robbery. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

As I see it Marijuana is a less clear case which could result in interesting debate, Cocaine is open and shut.

There is no debate. Drug laws are unconstitutional and nonsensical. You have no legal or practical argument to support your position. It's based purely on rhetoric and emotion. Furthermore, even if you did have a practical argument to support your position the lack of a legal one negates your premise in its entirety. The government does not retain the authority to ban the use of drugs, period.

shiznit770 · Jan 5, 2009

Tucker Case said:
Do you have a source for this? My sources say the opposite.

You're right, I did some investigation and it seems that certainty of mine has been called into question. I didn't find any saying that nicotine is more addictive, though I suspect such evidence will rely solely on numbers.

Ikari · Jan 5, 2009

Maximus Zeebra said:
:lol:

Well, in the cases I have seen the mutation has been mostly negative. (skin, fat, muscle and face)

...super powers....

But in reality, I'm not much for banning drugs in general. I think maybe arguments can be made for designer drugs and such considering the capabilities of making something so addictive that people can't stop. But I'm also willing to let people make their own choices so long as they don't involve me.

Black Dog · Jan 5, 2009

Tucker Case said:
Cocaine withdrawal won't kill someone. I don;t know where you got that from.

Doh! I don't know what I was thinking either.

Tucker Case said:
["URL="https://www.google.com/health/ref/Cocaine+Withdrawal"]The withdrawal from cocaine may not be as unstable as withdrawal from alcohol."[/URL]

"Crack is an extremely powerful drug. Crack addiction is inevitable; once an individual has tried crack they may be unable to predict or control the extent to which they will continue to use. Crack is probably the most addictive substance yet devised." - crack withdrawal, Crack Detox & crack withdrawal symptoms by addiction withdrawal.com

Tucker Case said:
I've seen someone beat the living **** out of someone for stealing their smokes.

So what? I have seen people get beat up for stealing allot of things. Not the same thing.

Tucker Case said:
I've seen my brother go through heroin withdrawal more than once while attempting to get off of heroin (he's been clean for over a year and a half now). That is a real withdrawal.

I've also seen someone go through alcohol withdrawal. Looks quite the same as heroin, actually. Screaming, twitching, vomiting, violence, etc.

Just like crack?

"Crack withdrawal symptoms include but are not limited to:

agitation
depression
intense craving for the drug
extreme fatigue
anxiety
angry outbursts
lack of motivation
nausea/vomiting
shaking
irritability
muscle pain
disturbed sleep

Maximus Zeebra · Jan 5, 2009

Ikari said:
...super powers....

But in reality, I'm not much for banning drugs in general. I think maybe arguments can be made for designer drugs and such considering the capabilities of making something so addictive that people can't stop. But I'm also willing to let people make their own choices so long as they don't involve me.

THC and the Liver mental illness medicinal marijuana

Positive AND negative effects of marijuana.. I would rank "racing thoughts " as VERY positive effect when I tried it.

Tucker Case · Jan 5, 2009

shiznit770 said:
You're right, I did some investigation and it seems that certainty of mine has been called into question. I didn't find any saying that nicotine is more addictive, though I suspect such evidence will rely solely on numbers.

Cocaine and Nicotine have similar withdrawals. The difference, IMO, is that nicotine, if made illegal, probably wouldn't really get used by anyone but the curent addicts. There is nowhere near as much effect to the drug as their is with cocaine.

Over time, an all-out ban on cigarettes would probably have a long-term effect on curbing use, whereas Cocaine has a more obvious immediate pleasure.

Heroin and alcohol are comparable in withdrawals, and they are quite brutal. The difference is that heroin is far more addictive.

shiznit770 · Jan 5, 2009

Ethereal said:
Far less addicting than cocaine? And you would know this how, exactly? I've tried all three of these drugs and I can tell you for a fact that quitting smoking was far harder than choosing not to use cocaine on a regular basis. The same can be said of alcohol. I will drink beer for as long as I live, can't say the same thing for cocaine. It's not the drug itself that is addicting, it's the subjective value assigned by the user to the feeling the drug illicits. Blaming drugs for the actions of the user is like blaming a woman's purse for a robbery. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

So its not the drug that's addicting, its the effect the drug has on the user? That's fine if you wish to clarify. To be honest crime, robbery, and murder are not my reasoning for banning drugs such as Cocaine. It is the adverse effects they have on a person's role in society. Most people who do hard drugs become a burden on society and (i believe) waste their personal worth away on getting "high".

There is no debate. Drug laws are unconstitutional and nonsensical. You have no legal or practical argument to support your position. It's based purely on rhetoric and emotion. Furthermore, even if you did have a practical argument to support your position the lack of a legal one negates your premise in its entirety. The government does not retain the authority to ban the use of drugs, period.

Do you also believe the government has no obligation to protect the consumer from fraud and producer negligence. Would you legalize Cocaine and then have the government oversee its purity to make sure you don't die from a bad dose?

Tucker Case · Jan 5, 2009

Blackdog said:
"Crack is an extremely powerful drug. Crack addiction is inevitable; once an individual has tried crack they may be unable to predict or control the extent to which they will continue to use. Crack is probably the most addictive substance yet devised." - crack withdrawal, Crack Detox & crack withdrawal symptoms by addiction withdrawal.com

Crack and cocaine are two different drugs. Crack is way worse than cocaine. I said cocaine and not crack for a reason.

So what? I have seen people get beat up for stealing allot of things. Not the same thing.

Like a crack pipe? :mrgreen:

Just like crack?

"Crack withdrawal symptoms include but are not limited to:

agitation
depression
intense craving for the drug
extreme fatigue
anxiety
angry outbursts
lack of motivation
nausea/vomiting
shaking
irritability
muscle pain
disturbed sleep

Way worse than crack withdrawal. (I've seen that too). Plus cocaine is not the same as crack. It's a derivitave of cocaine, but it is not the same.

shiznit770 · Jan 5, 2009

Tucker Case said:
Cocaine and Nicotine have similar withdrawals. The difference, IMO, is that nicotine, if made illegal, probably wouldn't really get used by anyone but the curent addicts. There is nowhere near as much effect to the drug as their is with cocaine.

Over time, an all-out ban on cigarettes would probably have a long-term effect on curbing use, whereas Cocaine has a more obvious immediate pleasure.

Heroin and alcohol are comparable in withdrawals, and they are quite brutal. The difference is that heroin is far more addictive.

So with Cocaine's obvious edge in terms of instant gratification, would it not be safe to say Cocaine use would increase significantly with its legalization? Smoking increased significantly due to social pressures. A product with the addictive potential of nicotine and the pleasure potential of sex would quickly rise in use, no?

Maximus Zeebra · Jan 5, 2009

Blackdog said:
Doh! I don't know what I was thinking either.

"Crack is an extremely powerful drug. Crack addiction is inevitable; once an individual has tried crack they may be unable to predict or control the extent to which they will continue to use. Crack is probably the most addictive substance yet devised." - crack withdrawal, Crack Detox & crack withdrawal symptoms by addiction withdrawal.com

So what? I have seen people get beat up for stealing allot of things. Not the same thing.

Just like crack?

"Crack withdrawal symptoms include but are not limited to:

agitation
depression
intense craving for the drug
extreme fatigue
anxiety
angry outbursts
lack of motivation
nausea/vomiting
shaking
irritability
muscle pain
disturbed sleep

OMG, for the fifth time. We are talking about powder cocaine(regular cocaine), not crack cocaine, which is something completely different.

Ethereal · Jan 5, 2009

You have got to be kidding? Your response has little to do with my reply and really ignores my response.

My response was an attempt to highlight the contradictory nature of your position. You are using the negative side effects of crack cocaine as a rationale for its criminalization whilst ignoring the side effects of legalized drugs. I have never once heard an argument for the criminalization of drugs that actually remained consistent in its logic; your position is no exception.

Because alcoholics so readily seek help?

Perhaps if I had used the word "readily" you might have a point, but alas, you do not. Furthermore, alcoholics are more likely to seek help than crack addicts because there is a socially encouraged support network should they choose to utilize it. The stigma and illegality of crack use discourages people from rendering assistance to addicts. It also discourages addicts from seeking help.

Obviously you did not bother to read anything else and jumped to a silly conclusion.

I'm sorry. Perhaps you could better clarify your position for me. Why do you believe drug use should be criminalized and how do you reconcile this with the contradictory aspect of making exceptions (cigarettes and alcohol) to your rule?

Maximus Zeebra · Jan 5, 2009

shiznit770 said:
So with Cocaine's obvious edge in terms of instant gratification, would it not be safe to say Cocaine use would increase significantly with its legalization? Smoking increased significantly due to social pressures. A product with the addictive potential of nicotine and the pleasure potential of sex would quickly rise in use, no?

Not if the legality is regulated, like the legality of cigarettes and alcohol also should be..

Tucker Case · Jan 5, 2009

shiznit770 said:
So with Cocaine's obvious edge in terms of instant gratification, would it not be safe to say Cocaine use would increase significantly with its legalization? Smoking increased significantly due to social pressures. A product with the addictive potential of nicotine and the pleasure potential of sex would quickly rise in use, no?

I don't think so. Legality doesn't really effect who uses a drug, from my experience. But with legality comes more effective regulation.

A drug store clerk would not risk his livelihood by selling cocaine to a minor, just as he wouldn't sell nicotine to a minor, but no such stop-gaps exist for the average cocaine dealer, who is breaking the law already, so why not sell the little kid some coke?

Maximus Zeebra · Jan 5, 2009

shiznit770 said:
So its not the drug that's addicting, its the effect the drug has on the user? That's fine if you wish to clarify. To be honest crime, robbery, and murder are not my reasoning for banning drugs such as Cocaine. It is the adverse effects they have on a person's role in society. Most people who do hard drugs become a burden on society and (i believe) waste their personal worth away on getting "high".

Do you also believe the government has no obligation to protect the consumer from fraud and producer negligence. Would you legalize Cocaine and then have the government oversee its purity to make sure you don't die from a bad dose?

All this brings us into a another and more complex debate where things such as lack of education ,overweight and bad health in general, lifestyles and so on have to be brought into the mix. Lots of people who do not use drugs live horrible and worthless lives and equally have a negative effect on the society.

shiznit770 · Jan 5, 2009

Tucker Case said:
I don't think so. Legality doesn't really effect who uses a drug, from my experience. But with legality comes more effective regulation.

A drug store clerk would not risk his livelihood by selling cocaine to a minor, just as he wouldn't sell nicotine to a minor, but no such stop-gaps exist for the average cocaine dealer, who is breaking the law already, so why not sell the little kid some coke?

The way I see it, with legality comes commercialization. Will advertising be banned? Who will produce it? The fact is it will quickly become a lucrative practice. Do you think capitalism and commercialization will not come into play if it is legalized?

ludahai · Jan 5, 2009

I am kind of amused by people who think their lives are so inadequate that they have to enhance them eith drugs (either illegal or legal).

I don't do illegal drugs. I also don't drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes. (No, I am NOT Baptist)

What Are Our Reasons That We Choose Not To Use Illegal Drugs

Why have you decided not to use illegal drugs?

Because I hear horror stories about addiction to them

Because I know people personally who have suffered from addiction.

Because I am perfectly happy and serene without them (If it ain't broke...)

Because the consequences of their being illegal make life miserable for addicts

Simply because they are illegal

Other (specify in the thread if you would like)

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