View Poll Results: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

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  • Yes

    4 7.55%
  • no

    49 92.45%
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Thread: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

  1. #61
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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    It's a right to not be discriminated against, not a right to employment.
    Rights do not act as restrictions on individuals, only government entities.

    Please redress your argument accordingly.

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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Rights do not act as restrictions on individuals, only government entities.

    Please redress your argument accordingly.
    Yell "fire" in a theater and see how far your right to free speech goes

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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Yell "fire" in a theater and see how far your right to free speech goes.
    Laws act as restrictions on individuals, rights act as restrictions on governments. There is no such thing as a right not to be discriminated against by individuals, there is, however, a law which forbids employers (individuals) to discriminate against others on certain bases just as there is a law against yelling fire in a theater.

    Such a law, in my opinion, is blatantly unconstitutional as it seeks to enforce a nonexistent right at the expense of an actual right (private property rights). A business is private property, therefore the owner of said property is under no obligation to share it with others.

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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    There is so much wrong here, I'm not sure where to start.
    Notice that I said Gearge W, not George W. Those that voted for the great destroyer George W, should only be exiled to Texas.

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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Yell "fire" in a theater and see how far your right to free speech goes
    Well, if there happen's to actually be a fire in that theatre when he yells, "fire", it should go pretty far.

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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Laws act as restrictions on individuals, rights act as restrictions on governments. There is no such thing as a right not to be discriminated against by individuals, there is, however, a law which forbids employers (individuals) to discriminate against others on certain bases just as there is a law against yelling fire in a theater.

    Such a law, in my opinion, is blatantly unconstitutional as it seeks to enforce a nonexistent right at the expense of an actual right (private property rights). A business is private property, therefore the owner of said property is under no obligation to share it with others.
    There is a law restricting my right to free speech because if I yell "fire" in a theater I am restricting your right to personal safety.

    Your principal is therefore false.

    There are many laws which restrict personal rights in situations where those rights would unjustly infringe on others. Discrimination is one. Unless my political views are causing you harm, you have no right to fire me for them absent an expressed agreement to comply with your political leanings was a part of the employment contract.

    This is why companies tend to terminate people for unrelated reasons to the actual offence.

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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    There is a law restricting my right to free speech because if I yell "fire" in a theater I am restricting your right to personal safety.

    Your principal is therefore false.

    There are many laws which restrict personal rights in situations where those rights would unjustly infringe on others. Discrimination is one. Unless my political views are causing you harm, you have no right to fire me for them absent an expressed agreement to comply with your political leanings was a part of the employment contract.

    This is why companies tend to terminate people for unrelated reasons to the actual offence.
    So, Firstly, I'd like to say that I agree with you entirely. This is a great, succinct, explanation of how our Rights are understood.

    However, I am just curious as to what clause in the Constitution explicitly provides for exceptions to our explicitly stated rights. Do you happen to know of one? For example, this right that you mention, the 'right to personal safety': that right is not mentioned in the Constitution, is it? Now, don't get me wrong, I fully agree that we have a right to personal safety, but I am just wondering how this right is found within the Constitution.

    Now, perhaps there are rights that the Constitution doesn't specifically mention that it nevertheless recognizes. I just would like to hear your take on that.

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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    There is a law restricting my right to free speech because if I yell "fire" in a theater I am restricting your right to personal safety.

    Your principal is therefore false.

    There are many laws which restrict personal rights in situations where those rights would unjustly infringe on others. Discrimination is one. Unless my political views are causing you harm, you have no right to fire me for them absent an expressed agreement to comply with your political leanings was a part of the employment contract.

    This is why companies tend to terminate people for unrelated reasons to the actual offence.
    A terminate doesn't unjustly infringe on a person's right because they do not have a right to employment. Especially not employment by the person of their choosing. Also if you are going to admit that people are fired for reasons other than the actual offense then surely you will admit to the folly of a law that states a person can't be terminated for XXX reason. How is it not a right for an employee to decide who he wants to work for him?
    From the ashes.

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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    There is a law restricting my right to free speech because if I yell "fire" in a theater I am restricting your right to personal safety.

    Your principal is therefore false.

    There are many laws which restrict personal rights in situations where those rights would unjustly infringe on others. Discrimination is one. Unless my political views are causing you harm, you have no right to fire me for them absent an expressed agreement to comply with your political leanings was a part of the employment contract.

    This is why companies tend to terminate people for unrelated reasons to the actual offence.
    There is no such thing as a right not to be discriminated against - it simply does not exist - therefore it makes no sense for you to claim that anti-discrimination laws serve a valid Constitutional purpose in a manner analogous to certain speech laws (yelling fire).

    If a black man comes to my house and I tell him to vacate the premises on the basis that he is black he must comply with my demand otherwise I can have him arrested - he cannot call the police once they arrive that I am violating his right not to be discriminated against - so why do you feel this principle of private property suddenly ends once my house is turned into my business?

    However, I am just curious as to what clause in the Constitution explicitly provides for exceptions to our explicitly stated rights. Do you happen to know of one? For example, this right that you mention, the 'right to personal safety': that right is not mentioned in the Constitution, is it? Now, don't get me wrong, I fully agree that we have a right to personal safety, but I am just wondering how this right is found within the Constitution.

    Now, perhaps there are rights that the Constitution doesn't specifically mention that it nevertheless recognizes. I just would like to hear your take on that.
    Rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution (privacy, safety) are covered by the Ninth Amendment which affirms the existence of implicit rights.

    "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
    -US Constitution, Ninth Amendment.


    This Amendment, in conjunction with the penumbras of other Amendments, has been construed so as to provide citizens with implicit rights. I feel, however, that the penumbras of other Amendments are unnecessary and that the Ninth Amendment is sufficient in and of itself for the allocation of implicit rights.

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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    This Amendment, in conjunction with the penumbras of other Amendments, has been construed so as to provide citizens with implicit rights. I feel, however, that the penumbras of other Amendments are unnecessary and that the Ninth Amendment is sufficient in and of itself for the allocation of implicit rights.
    Both instances demonstrate the problem with judicial activism. You can simply read into the amendments anything that you can imagine might exist in the so-called shadows eminating from those amendments.

    Case in point...the right to marital privacy established in Griswold has evolved a right to homoexual sodomy in Lawrence and evolved further to a right to gay marriage (MA Supreme Court). Somewhere, the marital part was just abandoned in order to satisfy the personal policy preferences of a majority of judges ruling on a specific question.

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