View Poll Results: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

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    4 7.55%
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Thread: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Actually, it's not. It states that employees believed they were fired for their support of Prop 8. Also, it references WorldNet Daily as the source.

    I am automatically suspicious of anything espoused by WND. I highly doubt there is a rash of firings over how someone voted...especially in California where it takes an act of congress to fire anyone.
    I wouldn't be. The Gay lobby is strong in California.
    Employers can and do fire people at a moments notice. They face a fine or court battle afterward but nothing keeps them from firing someone for whatever reason they want. In cases like this it often becomes a matter of which will be more feasible from a business standpoint. Losing the revenue from the employees actions/statements or keeping the revenue and paying the fine.

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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Actually, it's not. It states that employees believed they were fired for their support of Prop 8. Also, it references WorldNet Daily as the source.

    I am automatically suspicious of anything espoused by WND. I highly doubt there is a rash of firings over how someone voted...especially in California where it takes an act of congress to fire anyone.
    The OP article does talk about how the person was asked repeatedly for how they viewed and voted on the issue.

    Now, while I didn't note the source, other than that Jamesrage was posting it, I didn't think it was really relevant to the question he was asking. He seemed to be asking if it ought to be the case that people are generally fired for their views and votes. He seemed to be using the article as an example of what he is concerned about. He didn't seem to be attempting to rally support for these particular people, but asking if this case, as presented, would be fair, almost hypothetically.

    I think if you just look at the question used as the title of the thread, you'll see why I was thinking along those lines.

    I agree with you, if I was being asked to rally for these people's cause, write letters to the company or to the local newspaper, boycott the company etc., I would definitely dig deeper, and WND would not be where I would be digging. You must have simply started thinking along those lines right away, and that's probably where our dialogue diverged, before it ever really began.

    Your point about California is well taken. However, I know you must agree that Liberals can be at least marginally similar to Conservatives in how we (meaning me and my fellow liberals) attempt to enforce our beliefs. I can see firings of this specific sort occasionally attempted more in California than in, say, Idaho. In Idaho it would be the other way around, of course, the firings would be against those who voted for a Prop 8 style law, and in Idaho, you'd have way less a legal leg to stand on to protect yourself than in California.

  3. #43
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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    I wouldn't be. The Gay lobby is strong in California.
    Employers can and do fire people at a moments notice. They face a fine or court battle afterward but nothing keeps them from firing someone for whatever reason they want. In cases like this it often becomes a matter of which will be more feasible from a business standpoint. Losing the revenue from the employees actions/statements or keeping the revenue and paying the fine.
    I don't see it as very close to reality. The gay lobby isn't so strong that it's sniping people's jobs and causing political pressure to close businesses down. And it was WND reporting the story. You might as well have pulled the story out of the Enquirer or Sun for all the truth you find in a WND article. Just sayin.

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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    I could be mistaken but I believe the question is do I believe someone should be able to be fired because of the way they voted and not what the law currently states about it.
    You're quite correct in your assessment here, allow me to be more precise.

    Californians should not be fired for how they voted in an election because that's illegal.

    I hope that's clearer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    To have a law that says an employer can't fire someone because of their stated political positions ignores the fact that that position could have a negative impact on the business. The employer may have a large amount of gay clientele and the employees statement that he voted for prop 8 could cause him to lose those clients and the revenue they generate. For a business based in San Francisco this is completely plausible. We only have one side of the story so we don't really know what the true situation is.
    I think this is something different...related, but different. If an employer suffers a damage when someone expresses a political view, that employer might have a basis for a lawsuit depending on the specific facts of the situation.

    That didn't happen here, though. Neither the employer nor any employee suffered a damage. Gays in California do currently have access to each and every single civil right, and may possess and share ALL marital benefits with a member of the same gender, without any exception at all, under Prop8.

    California Domestic Partnership Rights and Responsibilities Act of 2003

    CDPRR Q&A

    It can't even be argued that gay employees suffered a financial damage as a result of Prop8's passing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    If a person is going to go by the law in California, shouldn't the protesters and people that set up that website also be held liable for people losing their jobs?
    It appears that those who crossed the line from legal protest and into harassment were dealt with appropriately. Boycotts are perfectly legal even when damaging per the 1st amendment.
    Last edited by Jerry; 01-02-09 at 02:36 PM.

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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I don't see it as very close to reality. The gay lobby isn't so strong that it's sniping people's jobs and causing political pressure to close businesses down. And it was WND reporting the story. You might as well have pulled the story out of the Enquirer or Sun for all the truth you find in a WND article. Just sayin.
    Awsome avatar, btw

  6. #46
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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    I think its wrong but its a private business. They have every legal right to hire and fire whoever they want for whatever reason. When businesses act like assholes like this and word gets around they get hurt real quick. Hell I can get fired for look at my District Manager the wrong way.
    No you can't get fired for any reason.
    There are laws that protect sexuality, race, etc. Privacy.

    Now, if you sign a contract that ways that you can't disclose certain things and you violate that, or if you have to not offer personal opinions for fear of swaying public opinion, etc, then that is different.

    Originally Posted by Phoenix
    I wouldn't be. The Gay lobby is strong in California.
    Employers can and do fire people at a moments notice. They face a fine or court battle afterward but nothing keeps them from firing someone for whatever reason they want. In cases like this it often becomes a matter of which will be more feasible from a business standpoint. Losing the revenue from the employees actions/statements or keeping the revenue and paying the fine.
    I have worked in two of the gayest areas in CA. Laguna Beach and San Fran/Somona County.

    I never heard of one person getting fired over making anti-gay comments or anything like that. I am extremely open, had many gay friends and such, and I would make comments sometimes, mostly jokes as we would go back and forth, but sometimes we would debate some serious aspect or law about homosexuality or whatnot, and I would voice an opinion different than what the "gays" were saying. All respectful on both sides, but disagreeing. I was never fired, and I even knew homophobes that completely argued with gays and were never fired. Bosses knew about these discussions, were sometimes present at after hour parties or at functions... I am not sure were you are getting your information, but it seems to contradict anything and everthing that I have ever experienced.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  7. #47
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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You're quite correct in your assessment here, allow me to be more precise.

    Californians should not be fired for how they voted in an election because that's illegal.

    I hope that's clearer.
    I don't think that the law is constitutional to allow a person to remain employed by another person. Or for an employee to be able to sue an employer for being terminated. For any reason. Americans have assumed a "right to employment" that shouldn't exist. A person should have no more right to a particular job than they should a right to use your front yard for something. Employment is a contract between two individuals not a right. You yourself have stated in other threads that private entities can do whatever they wish even terminating for religious beliefs. So which is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Gays in California do currently have access to each and every single civil right, and may possess and share ALL marital benefits with a member of the same gender, without any exception at all, under Prop8.

    California Domestic Partnership Rights and Responsibilities Act of 2003

    CDPRR Q&A

    It can't even be argued that gay employees suffered a financial damage as a result of Prop8's passing.
    This is incorrect. The obvious exception is Social Security (and survivor benefits) which is a federal entitlement and not bound by CA law. This is not really the point of this thread so it's for another time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It appears that those who crossed the line from legal protest and into harassment were dealt with appropriately. Boycotts are perfectly legal even when damaging per the 1st amendment.
    The question is even legal protesters are costing this man his employment. What makes their freedom of speech (protesting) more important that the employer in the other case's freedom of expression (termination)?
    From the ashes.

  8. #48
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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I have worked in two of the gayest areas in CA. Laguna Beach and San Fran/Somona County.

    I never heard of one person getting fired over making anti-gay comments or anything like that. I am extremely open, had many gay friends and such, and I would make comments sometimes, mostly jokes as we would go back and forth, but sometimes we would debate some serious aspect or law about homosexuality or whatnot, and I would voice an opinion different than what the "gays" were saying. All respectful on both sides, but disagreeing. I was never fired, and I even knew homophobes that completely argued with gays and were never fired. Bosses knew about these discussions, were sometimes present at after hour parties or at functions... I am not sure were you are getting your information, but it seems to contradict anything and everthing that I have ever experienced.
    While I appreciate your insight, Your personal experience don't make it the rule.
    And maybe hetros that vote for prop 8 aren't being terminated in mass quantities. I was using the information in the article.
    1) a woman was terminated fro voting for Prop 8
    2) a "Black List" has been made for businesses and individuals that voted for Prop 8.
    3) Protesters has decimated a business because the owner voted for Prop 8.

    My only observation is that in a predominately gay area it wouldn't surprise me if a significant amount of people were terminated for their vote.
    From the ashes.

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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    I don't think that the law is constitutional to allow a person to remain employed by another person. Or for an employee to be able to sue an employer for being terminated. For any reason. Americans have assumed a "right to employment" that shouldn't exist. A person should have no more right to a particular job than they should a right to use your front yard for something. Employment is a contract between two individuals not a right. You yourself have stated in other threads that private entities can do whatever they wish even terminating for religious beliefs. So which is it?
    It's a right to not be discriminated against, not a right to employment.

    Please redress your argument accordingly.

  10. #50
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    Re: Should you be fired for how you voted in a election or ballot issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It's a right to not be discriminated against, not a right to employment.

    Please redress your argument accordingly.
    "Should you be fired" = should you be employed
    If you are going to state that a person should not be allowed by law to be terminated, you are granting them the right to that employment.
    I have said before and will state it again,

    I believe an employer should be able to terminate an employee for any reason.

    A person or company should be able to openly discriminate if they so chose without fear of the government.
    I notice you skipped over addressing why you believe a person can be terminated for their religious beliefs but not for their vote.
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