What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

[Cardinal]

I've had a few debates with people in (in "real life"), and as I'm an artist and generally keep artists for company, I'm pretty much alone in my position that Israel has the right to eradicate active threats to its people. The discussion always devolves into who threw spitballs at whom first, (e.g. "Hasn't Israel had a tendency to overreact in the past?" as if that has any bearing on what's going on right now) and the fact that Hamas was launching rockets at Israeli population centers during the course of the cease fire is ignored or waved aside.

So, forget who was naughty first. Hamas launches rockets at Israel.

If military retaliation is not the correct response, then what is?

 

[Phoenix]

Israel should calmly ask Hamas to quit bombing them.

 

[Ikari]

Israel could conduct more precise military attacks which target Hamas and not civilians. Instead of carpet bombing, send in troops to apprehend criminals.

 

[Cardinal]

Israel could conduct more precise military attacks which target Hamas and not civilians. Instead of carpet bombing, send in troops to apprehend criminals.

Isn't Israel using smart bombs now? And even then, won't civilian casualties be inevitable when Hamas launches rockets from civilian structures? Also, how do you just send in troops to apprehend criminals who have perfected guerilla warfare in a population that is entirely on the side of Hamas?

 

[Cardinal]

Israel should calmly ask Hamas to quit bombing them.

Your problem solving skills are being squandered here.

 

[bhkad]

Israel could conduct more precise military attacks which target Hamas and not civilians. Instead of carpet bombing, send in troops to apprehend criminals.

Why do you lie and say they are carpet bombing when they obviously are not?

They are using the greatest restraint possible. Sending in troops would be far more bloody.

 

[Shewter]

Challenge the Head of Government to a duel.

To achieve this, the Champion of Israel must first gain access to Michael Jacksons lost glove.

 

[Ethereal]

Egypt needs to assume sovereignty over Palestine and restore order. Palestine is not a "country" in any sense of the word. It's a lawless assemblage of criminals and impoverished and the only way this nonsense will ever be resolved is by eliminating Hamas once and for all. They have no desire for peace, none whatsoever.

 

[Ikari]

Why do you lie and say they are carpet bombing when they obviously are not?

They are using the greatest restraint possible. Sending in troops would be far more bloody.

They bomb civilian targets to get to the terrorists. That's not proper response, not in the current situation. The last few attacks on Israel killed what? 2 or so people? Israel retaliates and kills hundreds, many of whom are civilian. You've just killed many people's parents, friends, or family. You think they're going to be happy with you now? You think there will be no retaliation for that? You're a fool if you think so. There is a vicious circle established in this conflict. Who or what started it no longer matters, all that matters is the existence of this circle. And both sides feed into it, when Israel fires these rockets and hits civilians they feed into it. They perpetuate it the same as Palestine. If you want peace, you have to seek a different solution than this. Killing off civilians is not the way to achieve peace; and both sides are equally guilty. Proper response includes not bombing civilians.

 

[Cardinal]

They bomb civilian targets to get to the terrorists. That's not proper response, not in the current situation. The last few attacks on Israel killed what? 2 or so people? Israel retaliates and kills hundreds, many of whom are civilian. You've just killed many people's parents, friends, or family. You think they're going to be happy with you now? You think there will be no retaliation for that? You're a fool if you think so. There is a vicious circle established in this conflict. Who or what started it no longer matters, all that matters is the existence of this circle. And both sides feed into it, when Israel fires these rockets and hits civilians they feed into it. They perpetuate it the same as Palestine. If you want peace, you have to seek a different solution than this. Killing off civilians is not the way to achieve peace; and both sides are equally guilty. Proper response includes not bombing civilians.

I'm perfectly aware that many people find Israel's response objectionable (and yes, I'm aware that it has consequences as well). What I'm asking is what the response should be.

 

[Zyphlin]

Israel should calmly ask Hamas to quit bombing them.

I think the first step is the above. Diplomatically ask for it to cease.

If it does not cease, demand it to cease and state there will be consequences.

If it then does not cease, do pin point strikes against any Hamas targets that have the lowest chance of civilian casualty.

If it then does not cease, do pin point strikes against the areas launching the rockets and their hide outs no matter the possability of civilian casualty.

If it continues to occur, continue to ramp up the aggression.

You can not simply sit at the "ask them nicely to stop" stage and nothing more. Israel's government has a duty to keep its people safe. I don't care if its "only 1 died" or any of that other bull****...if rockets are coming in daily its a state of perpetual fear and danger and a persons government should NOT simply allow this to continue happening. If it did, the people should rise against the government.

You don't just start with sending missiles back, but it should definitly get to that point if it doesn't stop.

It sucks there's causalities on the other side, but it is the state of war. Civilian casualties do happen, and when Hamas specifically operates inside civilian areas that doesn't help it. It is not israel's fault that is where Hamas hides itself, and if extra civilians die because of that it is Hamas fault for making the choice to opperate from that area instead of other areas because Israel is simply doing a justified retaliation, attacking that which attacks them.

In part, civilian casualities are necessary. If they're doing nothing, they're tacitly approving of the unprovoked attacks by Hamas. If they have issues with the attacks by israel, the answer is simple...raise up and run Hamas out.

If a guy punches me or a member of my family in the face, I will go at him full out. If I end up hurting him so much that he can't work and provide with his family, that is not my fault...that is his for doing such aggression. Do I feel bad for his family? Sure. But perhaps they should not be putting all their stock on a guy that goes around punching people in the face.

 

[Goobieman]

Clearly, Israel should just bend over and take it.
After all, if there were no Israel, there'd be no Hamas, and innocent terrorists wouldn't be killed by US bombs.

 

[Zyphlin]

They bomb civilian targets to get to the terrorists. That's not proper response, not in the current situation. The last few attacks on Israel killed what? 2 or so people? Israel retaliates and kills hundreds, many of whom are civilian. You've just killed many people's parents, friends, or family. You think they're going to be happy with you now? You think there will be no retaliation for that? You're a fool if you think so. There is a vicious circle established in this conflict. Who or what started it no longer matters, all that matters is the existence of this circle. And both sides feed into it, when Israel fires these rockets and hits civilians they feed into it. They perpetuate it the same as Palestine. If you want peace, you have to seek a different solution than this. Killing off civilians is not the way to achieve peace; and both sides are equally guilty. Proper response includes not bombing civilians.

I'm sorry, I don't buy this.

"equally guilty"

You say for them to pin point attacks that don't harm civilians. How exactly? How exactly do you do a pin point strike that doesn't harm civilians against a target that houses the rockets being fired if that target is literally intermixed with civilians?

You say send troops in, so not bombing but legitimately an invasion as Israel would have no legal rights to go in and "apprehend" people in the other country. You think THAT's not going to cause people to hate them, that THAT's not going to be used as propoganda by Hamas? Instead of "israel kills x" it'll just be "israel abducts x". Do you think that wouldn't cause retribution and retaliation, wouldn't incur further attacks. To steal a line from you, you'd have to be an idiot to think that.

Should they instead just sit by and let rockets rain in on them for months upon months because it "only kills 1 or 2 people" every few weeks? Is that your idea of how a soverign nation should protect and serve its citizenry? For palestine to have peace israel must have constant assults? Or will Palestine just magically get bored and go "oh well, time to stop".

I'm honestly not sure if there's really a way to get legitimate peace in that region. Israel isn't going to pick up and move, and Hamas/Palestine is not going to stop until Israel is gone. Until someone can somehow find a way to fix one of those root causes, which I don't think will happen, I don't think you'll see any true sustained peace unfortunantly.

 

[Ikari]

I'm perfectly aware that many people find Israel's response objectionable (and yes, I'm aware that it has consequences as well). What I'm asking is what the response should be.

And I already told you. A more precise action, one not targeted towards civilians. It would probably require land troops instead of outright bombings of civilian areas.

Of course the ideal response is for the lot of them (Israel and Palestine) to grow the **** up; but that doesn't seem like it will ever happen.

 

[Ethereal]

I'm honestly not sure if there's really a way to get legitimate peace in that region. Israel isn't going to pick up and move, and Hamas/Palestine is not going to stop until Israel is gone. Until someone can somehow find a way to fix one of those root causes, which I don't think will happen, I don't think you'll see any true sustained peace unfortunantly.

The root cause is an intolerant group of extremists who are hell-bent on eradicating the Jews; whom they literally consider to be pigs and weasels. The only solution to this problem is for Egypt to assume sovereignty over Palestine and restore some semblance of order and governance.

 

[Cardinal]

And I already told you. A more precise action, one not targeted towards civilians. It would probably require land troops instead of outright bombings of civilian areas.

Of course the ideal response is for the lot of them (Israel and Palestine) to grow the **** up; but that doesn't seem like it will ever happen.

Even with a smart bomb you can't not target civilians when the rockets are being deliberately launched from civilian locations. And to repeat myself, the Israelis can't just go in and scoop up people who've launched the rocket for three reasons: 1)the civilian population is entirely sympathetic to the cause of Hamas, so Israelis would get no help and much obstruction from them. 2) Hamas, like Hezbollah, are masters of guerilla warfare. While the IDF would serve up a plateful of kickass to Hamas, they could expect huge casualties of their own. 3) The Hamas members who launch the rockets are not only long gone by the time retaliatory missiles arrive, but they would be even more long gone and swallowed up by the surrounding populace by the time any IDF forces arrived. And as Zyphil pointed out, an invasion would garner easily as much condemnation, not less.

 

[Cardinal]

And I already told you. A more precise action, one not targeted towards civilians. It would probably require land troops instead of outright bombings of civilian areas.

Of course the ideal response is for the lot of them (Israel and Palestine) to grow the **** up; but that doesn't seem like it will ever happen.

By the way, you are aware that rockets are being launched from civilian structures, are you not?

 

[Ikari]

1)the civilian population is entirely sympathetic to the cause of Hamas, so Israelis would get no help and much obstruction from them.

Which is further reinforced every time Israel bombs hundreds of civilians to get at some Hezbollah jerks.

2) Hamas, like Hezbollah, are masters of guerilla warfare. While the IDF would serve up a plateful of kickass to Hamas, they could expect huge casualties of their own.

War sucks, they should understand the consequences of it. Avoid innocent life, go in and take the guys without killing a **** ton of civilians in the process. The killing of civilians only bolsters your claim #1.

3) The Hamas members who launch the rockets are not only long gone by the time retaliatory missiles arrive, but they would be even more long gone and swallowed up by the surrounding populace by the time any IDF forces arrived. And as Zyphil pointed out, an invasion would garner easily as much condemnation, not less.

So kill civilians is your solution then? They're gone by the time the missiles show up, right? Then who the hell did you just punish? The civilians, that's all. All that does is feed into the circle. Your solution seems to be no solution. Or rather that Israel should participate in the cycle of death and destruction till some outside force comes in and solves the damned problem.

Maybe the US should go in there and make the whole of the area, Israel and Palestine, unable to support human life. Problem solved. Can't play nice with the ball, then no one gets the ball. Of course, that's in reality a horrible "solution" which shouldn't actually be endorsed.

 

[Ikari]

By the way, you are aware that rockets are being launched from civilian structures, are you not?

BTW, you are aware that that's not a proper excuse to kill hundreds of innocents, are you not?

 

[Goobieman]

By the way, you are aware that rockets are being launched from civilian structures, are you not?

Silly you!
Didn't you know that targeting civlians and targeting military targets in civilian areas are the same thing!!

 

[Goobieman]

BTW, you are aware that that's not a proper excuse to kill hundreds of innocents, are you not?

Imagine if you will...

A Hamas mortar battery, in the courtyard of a palestinian school
While school is in session, it is lobbing round after round after round into an Israeli town.

How do YOU suggest it be taken out?

 

[Cardinal]

Which is further reinforced every time Israel bombs hundreds of civilians to get at some Hezbollah jerks.

War sucks, they should understand the consequences of it. Avoid innocent life, go in and take the guys without killing a **** ton of civilians in the process. The killing of civilians only bolsters your claim #1.

So kill civilians is your solution then? They're gone by the time the missiles show up, right? Then who the hell did you just punish? The civilians, that's all. All that does is feed into the circle. Your solution seems to be no solution. Or rather that Israel should participate in the cycle of death and destruction till some outside force comes in and solves the damned problem.

Maybe the US should go in there and make the whole of the area, Israel and Palestine, unable to support human life. Problem solved. Can't play nice with the ball, then no one gets the ball. Of course, that's in reality a horrible "solution" which shouldn't actually be endorsed.

Alright, well, you don't seem to be arguing with my points about why your solution (only target Hamas; go into Gaza and scoop up the criminals) doesn't work. What is your solution then? Hamas regularly fired rockets at Israel during the cease fire, and dramatically increased the number immediately following the cease fire. What is your proposed solution at that point?

We've already agreed that going in to scoop up the criminals is not practical, and that pinpointing the bad guys is not practical. With these facts, what do you do immediately upon being rained down on with rockets? We have many threads and hundreds of pages of blame, recriminations and criticism. I'm asking what Israel should be doing.

 

[Ikari]

Alright, well, you don't seem to be arguing with my points about why your solution (only target Hamas; go into Gaza and scoop up the criminals) doesn't work. What is your solution then? Hamas regularly fired rockets at Israel during the cease fire, and dramatically increased the number immediately following the cease fire. What is your proposed solution at that point?

We've already agreed that going in to scoop up the criminals is not practical, and that pinpointing the bad guys is not practical. With these facts, what do you do immediately upon being rained down on with rockets? We have many threads and hundreds of pages of blame, recriminations and criticism. I'm asking what Israel should be doing.

I already told you, send in troops to hunt down those involved. Killing hundreds of civilians doesn't do anything. You already admitted that those whom did it are probably gone before the missiles get there. Thus the bombing is only to punish the civilians in the area. But that's not going to solve anything, that feeds back into the problem. It's not going to stop as long as both sides participate in the circle. Israel should also target the propaganda and launch large humanitarian efforts into Palestine which would include the building of schools and hospitals. If you can start to decrease your point #1, you'll make it harder for Hezbollah to hide in civilian sectors.

 

[Ikari]

Imagine if you will...

A Hamas mortar battery, in the courtyard of a palestinian school
While school is in session, it is lobbing round after round after round into an Israeli town.

How do YOU suggest it be taken out?

Small tactical force.

 

[winston53660]

Small tactical force.

After all they do have the resources.