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Thread: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

  1. #21
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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    BTW, you are aware that that's not a proper excuse to kill hundreds of innocents, are you not?
    Imagine if you will...

    A Hamas mortar battery, in the courtyard of a palestinian school
    While school is in session, it is lobbing round after round after round into an Israeli town.

    How do YOU suggest it be taken out?
    Last edited by Goobieman; 12-30-08 at 02:45 PM.

  2. #22
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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Which is further reinforced every time Israel bombs hundreds of civilians to get at some Hezbollah jerks.

    War sucks, they should understand the consequences of it. Avoid innocent life, go in and take the guys without killing a **** ton of civilians in the process. The killing of civilians only bolsters your claim #1.

    So kill civilians is your solution then? They're gone by the time the missiles show up, right? Then who the hell did you just punish? The civilians, that's all. All that does is feed into the circle. Your solution seems to be no solution. Or rather that Israel should participate in the cycle of death and destruction till some outside force comes in and solves the damned problem.

    Maybe the US should go in there and make the whole of the area, Israel and Palestine, unable to support human life. Problem solved. Can't play nice with the ball, then no one gets the ball. Of course, that's in reality a horrible "solution" which shouldn't actually be endorsed.
    Alright, well, you don't seem to be arguing with my points about why your solution (only target Hamas; go into Gaza and scoop up the criminals) doesn't work. What is your solution then? Hamas regularly fired rockets at Israel during the cease fire, and dramatically increased the number immediately following the cease fire. What is your proposed solution at that point?

    We've already agreed that going in to scoop up the criminals is not practical, and that pinpointing the bad guys is not practical. With these facts, what do you do immediately upon being rained down on with rockets? We have many threads and hundreds of pages of blame, recriminations and criticism. I'm asking what Israel should be doing.

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Alright, well, you don't seem to be arguing with my points about why your solution (only target Hamas; go into Gaza and scoop up the criminals) doesn't work. What is your solution then? Hamas regularly fired rockets at Israel during the cease fire, and dramatically increased the number immediately following the cease fire. What is your proposed solution at that point?

    We've already agreed that going in to scoop up the criminals is not practical, and that pinpointing the bad guys is not practical. With these facts, what do you do immediately upon being rained down on with rockets? We have many threads and hundreds of pages of blame, recriminations and criticism. I'm asking what Israel should be doing.
    I already told you, send in troops to hunt down those involved. Killing hundreds of civilians doesn't do anything. You already admitted that those whom did it are probably gone before the missiles get there. Thus the bombing is only to punish the civilians in the area. But that's not going to solve anything, that feeds back into the problem. It's not going to stop as long as both sides participate in the circle. Israel should also target the propaganda and launch large humanitarian efforts into Palestine which would include the building of schools and hospitals. If you can start to decrease your point #1, you'll make it harder for Hezbollah to hide in civilian sectors.
    Last edited by Ikari; 12-30-08 at 02:52 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Imagine if you will...

    A Hamas mortar battery, in the courtyard of a palestinian school
    While school is in session, it is lobbing round after round after round into an Israeli town.

    How do YOU suggest it be taken out?
    Small tactical force.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Small tactical force.
    After all they do have the resources.

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Small tactical force.
    How meaninglessly unspecific.

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    How meaninglessly unspecific.
    How unpredictable, another immature retort.

    How unspecific is it. You have terrorists held up in a building, you send in a small tactical unit to infiltrate the building and take out the terrorists while keeping civilian casualties to a minimum.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I already told you, send in troops to hunt down those involved. Killing hundreds of civilians doesn't do anything. You already admitted that those whom did it are probably gone before the missiles get there. Thus the bombing is only to punish the civilians in the area. But that's not going to solve anything, that feeds back into the problem. It's not going to stop as long as both sides participate in the circle. Israel should also target the propaganda and launch large humanitarian efforts into Palestine which would include the building of schools and hospitals. If you can start to decrease your point #1, you'll make it harder for Hezbollah to hide in civilian sectors.
    He's also stated that any kind of group going into Palestine would also not help anything and make those upset with Israel further upset and give Hamas a propoganda tool. Israel has no arrest rights in Palestine, they have no more justification sending in a small force than they do for bombing. They would be labled invaders and abductors if they went in, or would still be pointed out the murder. They would be told that they are terrorizing the population with their presense causing undo terror upon the civilian population.

    You seem to, of course, ignore this because it doesn't make that suggestion of yours seem all that much better.

    So now your suggestion is that in response to Hamas sending in rockets, Israel should give Palestine money and infastructure and also send group troops in to abduct and/or kill people (of which will likely be looking like civilians and having civilians around to be used as shields anyways) or destroy civilian locations where attacks are being launched from simply in person instead of afar thus jeapordizing Israeli lives (You know, people who also have parents, families, friends).

    Your solution is to just let them keep being aggressive. Damn, I wish you were around back during revolutionary times. You could've scolded the founding fathers, they should've just accepted the mistreatment by the british. Should've just kept telling people that instead of fighting against the British we should really just be sending representitives over there to tell them how really great the colonies are and giving them lots of gifts to make them change the laws to better favor them.
    You down with TPP?

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    I already told you, send in troops to hunt down those involved.
    This is virtually impossible. Hamas...Palestinians...what's the difference? Those not directly involved in hostilities against Israel are providing logistical and moral support to those who are. There is no military solution short of wiping out all of Palestine, which isn't an option. A strong Arab government (Egypt) must assume sovereignty over Palestine and restore order and functional governance. Furthermore, an international coalition must be formed with the purpose of providing security and logistical support for said operations. Security must be established and maintained so that infrastructural necessities can be built or repaired.

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    This is virtually impossible. Hamas...Palestinians...what's the difference? Those not directly involved in hostilities against Israel are providing logistical and moral support to those who are. There is no military solution short of wiping out all of Palestine, which isn't an option. A strong Arab government (Egypt) must assume sovereignty over Palestine and restore order and functional governance. Furthermore, an international coalition must be formed with the purpose of providing security and logistical support for said operations. Security must be established and maintained so that infrastructural necessities can be built or repaired.
    It's as possible as hitting the one's who caused attacks with missile attacks on civilian sectors. Basically, the ultimate conclusion that we've reached is that no matter the reaction if Israel, it's all ineffective and would most likely go to feed back on the propaganda which makes this such a difficult mess in the first place. Thus if it's the propaganda that's really hurting, then maybe that's where things should be taken care of. And long term propaganda combat is going to take some time and in the mean time, you'd have to endure attacks without much in the way of retaliation. At least not retaliation which would put at risk a huge portion of the civilian population. Instead you'd have to heavily engage in diplomatic and humanitarian efforts over several years to start to change the minds and hearts of the people. But if that were done, that would go a long way into combating the propaganda which seems to be the bigger thorn.

    Otherwise, you're left with nothing but ineffective means of combat and if you're going to go that route; I'd prefer the one with the least number of civilian causalities.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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