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Thread: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Israel should calmly ask Hamas to quit bombing them.
    I think the first step is the above. Diplomatically ask for it to cease.

    If it does not cease, demand it to cease and state there will be consequences.

    If it then does not cease, do pin point strikes against any Hamas targets that have the lowest chance of civilian casualty.

    If it then does not cease, do pin point strikes against the areas launching the rockets and their hide outs no matter the possability of civilian casualty.

    If it continues to occur, continue to ramp up the aggression.

    You can not simply sit at the "ask them nicely to stop" stage and nothing more. Israel's government has a duty to keep its people safe. I don't care if its "only 1 died" or any of that other bull****...if rockets are coming in daily its a state of perpetual fear and danger and a persons government should NOT simply allow this to continue happening. If it did, the people should rise against the government.

    You don't just start with sending missiles back, but it should definitly get to that point if it doesn't stop.

    It sucks there's causalities on the other side, but it is the state of war. Civilian casualties do happen, and when Hamas specifically operates inside civilian areas that doesn't help it. It is not israel's fault that is where Hamas hides itself, and if extra civilians die because of that it is Hamas fault for making the choice to opperate from that area instead of other areas because Israel is simply doing a justified retaliation, attacking that which attacks them.

    In part, civilian casualities are necessary. If they're doing nothing, they're tacitly approving of the unprovoked attacks by Hamas. If they have issues with the attacks by israel, the answer is simple...raise up and run Hamas out.

    If a guy punches me or a member of my family in the face, I will go at him full out. If I end up hurting him so much that he can't work and provide with his family, that is not my fault...that is his for doing such aggression. Do I feel bad for his family? Sure. But perhaps they should not be putting all their stock on a guy that goes around punching people in the face.
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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Clearly, Israel should just bend over and take it.
    After all, if there were no Israel, there'd be no Hamas, and innocent terrorists wouldn't be killed by US bombs.

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    They bomb civilian targets to get to the terrorists. That's not proper response, not in the current situation. The last few attacks on Israel killed what? 2 or so people? Israel retaliates and kills hundreds, many of whom are civilian. You've just killed many people's parents, friends, or family. You think they're going to be happy with you now? You think there will be no retaliation for that? You're a fool if you think so. There is a vicious circle established in this conflict. Who or what started it no longer matters, all that matters is the existence of this circle. And both sides feed into it, when Israel fires these rockets and hits civilians they feed into it. They perpetuate it the same as Palestine. If you want peace, you have to seek a different solution than this. Killing off civilians is not the way to achieve peace; and both sides are equally guilty. Proper response includes not bombing civilians.
    I'm sorry, I don't buy this.

    "equally guilty"

    You say for them to pin point attacks that don't harm civilians. How exactly? How exactly do you do a pin point strike that doesn't harm civilians against a target that houses the rockets being fired if that target is literally intermixed with civilians?

    You say send troops in, so not bombing but legitimately an invasion as Israel would have no legal rights to go in and "apprehend" people in the other country. You think THAT's not going to cause people to hate them, that THAT's not going to be used as propoganda by Hamas? Instead of "israel kills x" it'll just be "israel abducts x". Do you think that wouldn't cause retribution and retaliation, wouldn't incur further attacks. To steal a line from you, you'd have to be an idiot to think that.

    Should they instead just sit by and let rockets rain in on them for months upon months because it "only kills 1 or 2 people" every few weeks? Is that your idea of how a soverign nation should protect and serve its citizenry? For palestine to have peace israel must have constant assults? Or will Palestine just magically get bored and go "oh well, time to stop".

    I'm honestly not sure if there's really a way to get legitimate peace in that region. Israel isn't going to pick up and move, and Hamas/Palestine is not going to stop until Israel is gone. Until someone can somehow find a way to fix one of those root causes, which I don't think will happen, I don't think you'll see any true sustained peace unfortunantly.
    You down with TPP?

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I'm perfectly aware that many people find Israel's response objectionable (and yes, I'm aware that it has consequences as well). What I'm asking is what the response should be.
    And I already told you. A more precise action, one not targeted towards civilians. It would probably require land troops instead of outright bombings of civilian areas.

    Of course the ideal response is for the lot of them (Israel and Palestine) to grow the **** up; but that doesn't seem like it will ever happen.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    I'm honestly not sure if there's really a way to get legitimate peace in that region. Israel isn't going to pick up and move, and Hamas/Palestine is not going to stop until Israel is gone. Until someone can somehow find a way to fix one of those root causes, which I don't think will happen, I don't think you'll see any true sustained peace unfortunantly.
    The root cause is an intolerant group of extremists who are hell-bent on eradicating the Jews; whom they literally consider to be pigs and weasels. The only solution to this problem is for Egypt to assume sovereignty over Palestine and restore some semblance of order and governance.

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And I already told you. A more precise action, one not targeted towards civilians. It would probably require land troops instead of outright bombings of civilian areas.

    Of course the ideal response is for the lot of them (Israel and Palestine) to grow the **** up; but that doesn't seem like it will ever happen.
    Even with a smart bomb you can't not target civilians when the rockets are being deliberately launched from civilian locations. And to repeat myself, the Israelis can't just go in and scoop up people who've launched the rocket for three reasons: 1)the civilian population is entirely sympathetic to the cause of Hamas, so Israelis would get no help and much obstruction from them. 2) Hamas, like Hezbollah, are masters of guerilla warfare. While the IDF would serve up a plateful of kickass to Hamas, they could expect huge casualties of their own. 3) The Hamas members who launch the rockets are not only long gone by the time retaliatory missiles arrive, but they would be even more long gone and swallowed up by the surrounding populace by the time any IDF forces arrived. And as Zyphil pointed out, an invasion would garner easily as much condemnation, not less.

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And I already told you. A more precise action, one not targeted towards civilians. It would probably require land troops instead of outright bombings of civilian areas.

    Of course the ideal response is for the lot of them (Israel and Palestine) to grow the **** up; but that doesn't seem like it will ever happen.
    By the way, you are aware that rockets are being launched from civilian structures, are you not?

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    1)the civilian population is entirely sympathetic to the cause of Hamas, so Israelis would get no help and much obstruction from them.
    Which is further reinforced every time Israel bombs hundreds of civilians to get at some Hezbollah jerks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    2) Hamas, like Hezbollah, are masters of guerilla warfare. While the IDF would serve up a plateful of kickass to Hamas, they could expect huge casualties of their own.
    War sucks, they should understand the consequences of it. Avoid innocent life, go in and take the guys without killing a **** ton of civilians in the process. The killing of civilians only bolsters your claim #1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    3) The Hamas members who launch the rockets are not only long gone by the time retaliatory missiles arrive, but they would be even more long gone and swallowed up by the surrounding populace by the time any IDF forces arrived. And as Zyphil pointed out, an invasion would garner easily as much condemnation, not less.
    So kill civilians is your solution then? They're gone by the time the missiles show up, right? Then who the hell did you just punish? The civilians, that's all. All that does is feed into the circle. Your solution seems to be no solution. Or rather that Israel should participate in the cycle of death and destruction till some outside force comes in and solves the damned problem.

    Maybe the US should go in there and make the whole of the area, Israel and Palestine, unable to support human life. Problem solved. Can't play nice with the ball, then no one gets the ball. Of course, that's in reality a horrible "solution" which shouldn't actually be endorsed.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    By the way, you are aware that rockets are being launched from civilian structures, are you not?
    BTW, you are aware that that's not a proper excuse to kill hundreds of innocents, are you not?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: What is the proper response to Hamas rockets?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    By the way, you are aware that rockets are being launched from civilian structures, are you not?
    Silly you!
    Didn't you know that targeting civlians and targeting military targets in civilian areas are the same thing!!

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