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OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for peace ?

Is Israel still seeking for peace ? Read the post below :

  • No

    Votes: 26 37.7%
  • Yes

    Votes: 43 62.3%

  • Total voters
    69
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Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

No, we are not.

That is not correct.

Oh really?

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

The United States has never done anything like this? Please stop feigning ignorance.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

You used the words "national sovereignty". The Pals have never been a nation. Britain has and is. If you've never been a nation then how can you have a "national sovereignty". You are being silly.

Are you purposefully being stupid?
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Now Hamas are using headstones and dead bodies as human shields. Those monsters.
YouTube - Israel bombs Gaza cemetery
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Considering that I pointed out earlier that Israel had approved of Hamas, I also find it a little hard to put all blame on the Palestinians:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/archives/4916-republicans-have-lost-war-terror.html#post123090

I wish somehow the Palestinians could understand that although Israel was hypocritical (most hated of God) in its approach here, to approve of Hamas, and then to kill those that take the bait (as it COULD seem), not all people would have let them get sucked in to such a hell hole. I would just have made it clear, see a Hamas kill a Hamas; the only good Hamas is a dead Hamas.

The world in its seeming support of Hamas, to give them a chance, like Jimmy Carter Pin articulated, is simply not helping the Palestinians. It is why I do not get so mad at Billo_Really for his balance in condemning Israel.

The worthless UN resolution that called for the cease-fire should have included something to this effect:

Whereas, Israel has approved of Hamas in being a viable partner for peace to be elected, when the Hamas Charter and the actions of Hamas are a violation of the United Nations Charter and UN resolution 242, therefore, Israel is not innocent of the bloodshed in response to Hamas being elected, consequently Israel should immediately stop the overreaction, stand down, and Member States operating according to Articles blah, blah, blah, 45, blah, blah, blah, 47, blah, blah, blah, must restore international peace and security to the area. Whereas, it is the determination of the Security Council that International Peace and Security can only come when Hamas is removed, and viable government established in Gaza, which is in compliance with International Peace and Security. {I am sure a lawyer with some sense can word it much better; I once had a 14 by 14 foot ceiling fall on my head after a hurricane. So please forgive my twitchiness. }

Charter of The United Nations

Considering the approval by Israel of Hamas to be elected, it is somewhat understandable that Palestinians would feel duped, betrayed, and hopelessly murdered.

The big problem here is, I am not hearing enough reasonable arguments coming out of those Palestinians that support the Palestinians having a State. On the one hand the hypocrites want an Oslo aid and comfort forgiving their past crimes and on the other they want to bring up Israeli Terrorism or other crimes that happened prior to 1967; Illogic will not convince me of anything.

Supporting terror and shoving salami bombs up their butts and vaginas, for the rape of angels at Lut's house, will not convince me Palestinians as a Nation can be trusted to be at peace with anyone; the laws of man can never be any more perfect than the road to Mecca, or (in my opinion) the Books that travel it.

Excuse me, but you are Ignoring the fact that their families are getting killed every day, now the last thing they want to do is looking for peace with the ones who raids them, isn't that a logical argument ?

The change you talked about earlier needs a very very long time to happen, after the war gets cold of course.
So when the war will get cold for palestinians to start to think ? that what I hope to happen soon.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Key word "our" - but that's just your curriculum.

My point is there has to be many madrasah's where anti-american ideals and anti-ethical ideals are promoted - how else are many palestinian students brainwashed to hate israelis, and to learn how to shoot ak-47/m-16's at age 14, and that the west has ruined the world.

Again, I am not bashing your school, because you are clearly educated; In fact, I'm not bashing at all;
I am making note of the fact that there are 'those' madrasahs out there....

Dunno, but in my school a teacher could get fired if spreaded Ideas like that, We know that America supports Israel with weapons to kill Palestinians, we dont need a teacher to tell us that,but in the same time (as I said before), our disagreements are with the government, not with the citizens.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Excuse me, but you are Ignoring the fact that their families are getting killed every day, now the last thing they want to do is looking for peace with the ones who raids them, isn't that a logical argument ?

Wouldnt you think the Israeli people would feel the same way when they've constantly got to look up and walk around reinforced structures just to get to work or school?

Just sayin'

:2wave:
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea


I will presume that most people are familiar with Wikipedia. It describes itself as "an online free-content encyclopedia that anyone can edit", which I translate to mean that anyone can cite one's self as an authority on any and everything.

The co-founder, Jimmy Wales, describes Wikipedia as "an effort to create and distribute a multilingual free encyclopedia of the highest quality to every single person on the planet in his or her own language." Wikipedia exists to bring knowledge to everyone who seeks it".

Clearly Wikipedia and it's plethora of contributors are sincere and well-meaning, however characterizing all contibuted information as factual is unrealistic and in many cases patently false. Perhaps it would be more apt for Mr. Wales to describe Wikipedia as a great encyclopedia of an accumulation of biased opinions. For that, it is most definitely of the highest quality.

A good example of how Wikipedia is misused quite often appears on LiveLeak, a website where you will find videos on politics, religion and other controversial and thought provoking topics. Many of the videos on one or more of those subjects will from time to time elicit a counter-comment that is rife with allegations and/or accusations that has been referenced from content found on Wikipedia. When further researched using a plethora of well-established reliable sources, the information was found to be conveniently fabricated.

Considering that anyone with an ideological axe to grind and a smattering of writing ability can spin falsehoods on Wikipedia without challenge from the site's editors, clearly it should not be referenced as a valid source for factual information.

Why Wikipedia is Not a Reliable Source for Facts - Associated Content
 
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Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Dunno, but in my school a teacher could get fired if spreaded Ideas like that, We know that America supports Israel with weapons to kill Palestinians, we dont need a teacher to tell us that,but in the same time (as I said before), our disagreements are with the government, not with the citizens.

Ohhhhh. America doesn't support Israel with weapons to defend themselves, but to "kill Palestinians?" Oh those poor Palesitnians.

Doesn't the world, to include America and Israel, give charity to the Palestinians in which they purchase weapons to kill Israelis? Or does this ignorant propogandous argument go only one way? Perhaps if Palestinians concerned themselves more with progress and society creation rather than opting to be the world's longest running refugee charity case for the sake of fighting an unwinnable war, Palestinians could be as prosperous as Israelis.

I guess suicide bombers slaughter Israeli citizens because its really the government that angers them? Israelis don't have issues with Palestinians, just Hamas right? This is such a BS illusion. Everyone wants to pretend that the world would be some wonderful lollipop land if only the governments would cease and desist. Somehow, the masses seem to think that governments behave without their population's support or with their population's ignorance. People have come to think that if they state that they only hate the government, that he will be supported by the people of that government or the sympathy of the world will reward their noble accuracies with overwhelming applause.

Palestinians went from allowing Arabs elsewhere represent them in every cause to supporting the PLO to supporting Hamas. Of course, it took Arafat to see the light for Hamas to rise to power didn't it? And the Israeli government has gone from leader to leader with the support of Israelis hasn't it? It's such BS.

I shall illustrate further the con game......

America's enemy in the Pacific was the "Japanese." They shared in the victory until they felt the pain. Today's politically correct sickness would have us only angered at the Japanese government and the poor Japanese citizens who supported and made up their military were simple victims of their own government's actions. The problem in Germany wasn't Germans....it was the Nazis and the regular army and those citizens who supported both......er....Germans. Our enemy in Korea were "Koreans." But something happened during the Vietnam era. But over time we became audience to governments that were not represented by the people. This, more often than not, involved the tribe empowered. In the Middle East, the government was about a specific tribe and not all the people it was supposed to represent.

But....the Israeli government is very much representative of its people aren't they? Though there are certainly other tribes within and they have representation, the vast majority of the population is Jewish and therefor are represented accurately. To act as if Palestinians have hatred for only the Israeli government and not the people, we imply that the Israeli government is behaving in a manner much more suited to what we see in Muslim tribes. Does the Sudanese represent its people or a specific kind of people? How about Hussein's government? The Saudi government? In the same manner as Israel, Palesitnians are indeed represented by their government. Hamas is their representation. Palestinians celebrate in the streets over Hamas behavior. Therefore, like the Japanese, they also get to feel the pain of supporting their elected government's provocations.

Palestinians hate Israelis and Israelis hate Palestinians. Own up to it already.
 
No It Ar Ap Er Re Pa Ra Ti On

"No It Ar Ap Er Re Pa Ra Ti On"
Doesn't the world, to include America and Israel, give charity to the Palestinians in which they purchase weapons to kill Israelis? Or does this ignorant propogandous argument go only one way? Perhaps if Palestinians concerned themselves more with progress and society creation rather than opting to be the world's longest running refugee charity case for the sake of fighting an unwinnable war, Palestinians could be as prosperous as Israelis.
Today, there was signed a us bartered egypt-israel treaty to restrict certain grades of weapons entry into gaza.

The consistent element is ownership of property, perhaps not mineral rights, however homestead, whereby change can be inspired through mutual forms of compensation.

Over time, demand is met with purchase paid.

Wildly concede a claim by a tribe for city state laws.

Tribe is understood as ethnicity, with some degree of distinct isolation along genetic and cultural lines.

Could palestinians concede to tribal claims, volitiously relocated/relocating as welcomed immigrants?
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Israel's been working on that by expanding their country over the last 60 years to three times it's original size. I think it is quite hilarious when people then wonder why the Palestinians are upset.

You have made this comment, but Israel is not three times the size of its 1948 boundaries. It has only annexed Golan and East Jesusalem (both illegal) since then. Hardly three times.
 
Parade Real Estate

"Parade Real Estate"
You have made this comment, but Israel is not three times the size of its 1948 boundaries. It has only annexed Golan and East Jesusalem (both illegal) since then. Hardly three times.
On a global map it may be near difficult to focus ones eyes on the spot.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

YetIsrael has a history of rapid and ruthless expansion. What is your point?

Israel has only expanded after wars that were started by Arabs and has actually returned MOST of that territory to Arab states or has withdrawn from it to leave it to Arab terrorists.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Dude , the system here differs than yours, In the US once you are born In there, you can have the nationality, In Egypt, your are born from Palestini parents, you are palestini .

There was no such thing as Palestinian when he was born. Heck, part of this "so-called" Palestine was PART of Egypt from 1949-1967!
 
Fury Rage

"Fury Rage"
Israel has only expanded after wars that were started by Arabs and has actually returned MOST of that territory to Arab states or has withdrawn from it to leave it to Arab terrorists.
A conjectural degree of expansionism:
428px-Map_Land_of_Israel.jpg
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Please explain now a non-state entity can have national sovereignty.

That was not relevant to his question. Pay attention. He asked some silly random questions and then started talking about national sovereignty and how the Palestinians should accept the rule of Israel. Whether they have a state, and the definition of that is not set, or not is not particularly relevant to whether they'd be better under off and feel better off by renouncing any claims to self-rule.

So stop trying to score cheap points because I wiped the floor with you the last time we debated and grow the hell up.
 
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Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

I wonder how much different the border might look had Israel not been provoked into wars that would see them expand over the last fifty years? Every action has a reaction.

People ask what other country on earth has borders like Israel. Well what other country on earth is constantly threatened from all sides by sovereign states, terrorist organizations, individual terrorists, and celebrated refugees?

The situation is unique. And arguing as if Israel is the aggressive problem that won't behave is dishonest. Extreme toleration has always been the course of the day. Not so for the surrounding populations who have instigated wars, orchestrated attacks, and organized terror.
 
Re: No It Ar Ap Er Re Pa Ra Ti On

Could palestinians concede to tribal claims, volitiously relocated/relocating as welcomed immigrants?

That's just it. They don't have to leave. They never had to. Nobody complains that Jews don't own all of it, yet Palestinians are supposed to own it all? They are a burden to the Lebanese, Egyptians, and Syrians, which is why Palestinians have been the target often enough during their tribal wars. Jordan is a die hard sympathetic supporter only because large amounts of Palestinians settled there over the decades. It was Arabs that forced the issue of all or nothing from the beginning. It was Arabs that provoked the Suez War that would see Isreal push borders.

For a mass of people that both claim it, "sharing" was the answer. One side refused. That one side continue to pay to this day. Complaining and whining as if they share no responsibility for the decisions their people made will never change what occurred. No amount of long ago historical ownership matters. No amount of exxageration or plain lies (Jenin Hoax) will aid Palestinians move forward.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

That was not relevant to his question. Pay attention. He asked some silly random questions and then started talking about national sovereignty and how the Palestinians should accept the rule of Israel. Whether they have a state, and the definition of that is not set, or not is not particularly relevant to whether they'd be better under off and feel better off by renouncing any claims to self-rule.

So stop trying to score cheap points because I wiped the floor with you the last time we debated and grow the hell up.

It most certainly is relevant. Just because you can't accept it does not make it irrelevant. Israel is a sovereign nation. Palestine is not and never has been. It is a region. The other fact is the Pals cannot govern themselves. A nation that promotes suicide and teaches their children that suicide and murder are pleasing to God is a sick people. If parents in any civilized country taught their children what Hamas and the Hezbollah teach their children they would be in jail for child abuse. Nothing can excuse this sick behavior. This is not how you build a nation. It's not anyone's fault the Pals have never had and will not have a nation. It's their fault. They have made wrong choices. That is not Israel's fault. You need to look to Iran, not Israel.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

It most certainly is relevant. Just because you can't accept it does not make it irrelevant. Israel is a sovereign nation. Palestine is not and never has been. It is a region. The other fact is the Pals cannot govern themselves. A nation that promotes suicide and teaches their children that suicide and murder are pleasing to God is a sick people. If parents in any civilized country taught their children what Hamas and the Hezbollah teach their children they would be in jail for child abuse. Nothing can excuse this sick behavior. This is not how you build a nation. It's not anyone's fault the Pals have never had and will not have a nation. It's their fault. They have made wrong choices. That is not Israel's fault. You need to look to Iran, not Israel.
Little of this has any direct relevance to your original question. That is the point.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

I wonder how much different the border might look had Israel not been provoked into wars that would see them expand over the last fifty years? Every action has a reaction.

People ask what other country on earth has borders like Israel. Well what other country on earth is constantly threatened from all sides by sovereign states, terrorist organizations, individual terrorists, and celebrated refugees?

The situation is unique. And arguing as if Israel is the aggressive problem that won't behave is dishonest. Extreme toleration has always been the course of the day. Not so for the surrounding populations who have instigated wars, orchestrated attacks, and organized terror.
Israel is still occupying and settling the Westbank. If France did that to Dorset I'd consider it an act of war. Both sides are to blame and both need to seek a peaceful solution. The blind apologetics of Americans don't help.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Israel is still occupying and settling the Westbank. If France did that to Dorset I'd consider it an act of war. Both sides are to blame and both need to seek a peaceful solution. The blind apologetics of Americans don't help.

It would not be an act of war if the occupation was a result of hostilities initiated by the occupied party...which it is in this case. This has occurred many times throughout history.

And the blind apologetics of the EU don't help. Now that we have dispensed with the idiotic attacks on nationality, how about dropping it and sticking to the topic.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

It would not be an act of war if the occupation was a result of hostilities initiated by the occupied party...which it is in this case. This has occurred many times throughout history.
Actually it is an act of war to maintain the occupation and settlement. There is continual taking of land by settlers.

But if you want to go that far back we can then mention the setting up of Israel which was just massive land-theft. let's not forget that each attack by the arabs had the massive wrong of the progressive stealing of the land of the Palestinians as its backdrop. Jews were only 8% of the population in 1918. History does not help the Israelis.

And the blind apologetics of the EU don't help. Now that we have dispensed with the idiotic attacks on nationality, how about dropping it and sticking to the topic.
I despise the EU, I consider the very implication I have anything to do with that despotism as a personal insult.:2razz:

But seriously the rest of the world tends to be far more balanced than the Americans, it is very strange. I'm currently in Australia so don't have direct access to most British media but in Aussieland they are a lot more balanced than the average American is.

Most non-Americans tend to be balanced, they tend to say Hamas is wrong and Israel is wrong and that a joint peace needs to be found, Americans just come along and generally seem to say that Israel can do no wrong and the Palestinians are evil, or that is the impression I often get.

You know me CC, I may not be the most Orthodox traditionalist but I'm hardly what you could call a socialist European. I have moments of High Toryism that could make Dr.Johnson blush. There is nothing idiotic about the attack and it has been noticed by many.
 
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Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Actually it is an act of war to maintain the occupation and settlement. There is continual taking of land by settlers.

I support the occupation until there is evidence that the Palestinians can govern themselves without the possibility of their attacking Israel.

I do not support the settlements, and never have, though about a year ago I posted legal precedent for them to exist. I am glad that Israel has pulled out of most of them, and would encourage them to complete this.

But if you want to go that far back we can then mention the setting up of Israel which was just massive land-theft. let's not forget that each attack by the arabs had the massive wrong of the progressive stealing of the land of the Palestinians as its backdrop. Jews were only 8% of the population in 1918. History does not help the Israelis.

History completely supports the Israeli's. Read the 1948 UN Partition Plan for more details.

I despise the EU, I consider the very implication I have anything to do with that despotism as a personal insult.:2razz:

But seriously the rest of the world tends to be far more balanced than the Americans, it is very strange. I'm currently in Australia so don't have direct access to most British media but in Aussieland they are a lot more balanced than the average American is.

Most non-Americans tend to be balanced, they tend to say Hamas is wrong and Israel is wrong and that a joint peace needs to be found, Americans just come along and generally seem to say that Israel can do no wrong and the Palestinians are evil, or that is the impression I often get.

You know me CC, I may not be the most Orthodox traditionalist but I'm hardly what you could call a socialist European. I have moments of High Toryism that could make Dr.Johnson blush.

My comment was directed at your overgeneralization of the American position on this. A presentation could easily be made that most Europeans and European countries are decidedly biased against Israel. Using the old "Americans are Israeli apologetics" or the opposite towards Europeans gets us nowhere in debate.

Also, my perception of Europeans is that they see everything in the ME as being Israel's fault and could care less if Israel has to put up with bombings. So, notice how inaccurate both our perceptions are? This is what I am pointing out.
 
Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

I support the occupation until there is evidence that the Palestinians can govern themselves without the possibility of their attacking Israel.
It is still aggression.

I do not support the settlements, and never have, though about a year ago I posted legal precedent for them to exist. I am glad that Israel has pulled out of most of them, and would encourage them to complete this.
That is good to hear.


History completely supports the Israeli's. Read the 1948 UN Partition Plan for more details.
I hope you aren't suggesting that the UN can decide what is right.

My comment was directed at your overgeneralization of the American position on this. A presentation could easily be made that most Europeans and European countries are decidedly biased against Israel. Using the old "Americans are Israeli apologetics" or the opposite towards Europeans gets us nowhere in debate.
But that presentation couldn't be made. They don't tend to be like that, they just tend to actually criticise Israel now and again, but to some that is considered anti-Israeli. And it isn't Europeans, it is the rest of the West. I'm in Australia and it is much the same. Personally I'm a supporter of Israel as much as I am the Palestinians I just criticise Israel from when appropriate.

Also, my perception of Europeans is that they see everything in the ME as being Israel's fault and could care less if Israel has to put up with bombings. So, notice how inaccurate both our perceptions are? This is what I am pointing out.
And that is an incorrect perception, the problem is American seem to consider any criticism as being anti-Israel.
 
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