OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for peace ?

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Ahmed Shaheen said:

Please stick to main Idea, Arab are'nt in war with Israel right now, we are talking about Hamas and Israel, dont get confused, and dont Involve Arabs into this .

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i am sorry but where is the Pals getting all their weapons
obviously from nations that think weapons are more important than food/shelter and economic oppurtunities
wake up to reality
how does such a poor overpopulated area manage to get so many weapons but nothing else that their people need
palestinians could be moving forward in teh modern world if they did not piss away all thier money on weapons, or if they got real aid instead of munitions
they made their bed, now they care complaining about the bed they lie in

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Bodhisattva said:

Yeah... initially you said it was not about territory, and now you are seemingly saying that it is, to which I agree. It is all good. :2razz:

At this point, I have no idea what your point is though, each time I challenge one of your assertions, you modify or clarify it so that now, I am unclear as to your position. What is your argument? That it is up to Israel to find peace and not react to attacks unless that response is war ending?

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To the Palestinian it is about territory, to the Arab country using Hamas/Hezbollah as a proxy it is not about territory. That is why you see the people of those groups make concessions for peace while their rhetoric remains sharp and uncompromising. They lose Arab support if they water down their charter, but at the same time they desire peace.

My argument is that the blame game accomplishes nothing and is a poor excuse for an Israeli response that also accomplishes nothing. I saw your brief chronology as a justification for Israel to do whatever it wants, regardless of whether it will solve the problem. Both sides maintain strong stereotypes of each other which are only strengthened by the types of responses we are seeing.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

shiznit770 said:

Do you have anything besides the opinion of David Meir-Levi. I was unaware of this law and would like to do a little more research on it.

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This is a good site:

Israeli-Palestinian - ProCon.org

I would not if they were willing to do what is necessary to get Palestine on its way to statehood. "Annihilating the threat" is more than destroying Hamas and leaving. The threat is not just Hamas, but the inherent instability and lack of law in Gaza.

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Gaza would not be unstable if the Israelis simply kept it.
Appeasing Arab/Palestinian demands is like appeasing Hitler.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

shiznit770 said:

To the Palestinian it is about territory, to the Arab country using Hamas/Hezbollah as a proxy it is not about territory. That is why you see the people of those groups make concessions for peace while their rhetoric remains sharp and uncompromising. They lose Arab support if they water down their charter, but at the same time they desire peace.

My argument is that the blame game accomplishes nothing and is a poor excuse for an Israeli response that also accomplishes nothing. I saw your brief chronology as a justification for Israel to do whatever it wants, regardless of whether it will solve the problem. Both sides maintain strong stereotypes of each other which are only strengthened by the types of responses we are seeing.

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It hs nothing to do with allowing Israel to do "wahtever they want" and everything to do with understand the origin of the issue so that people understand the truth, instead of the deception. This enables people to discuss peace more effectively.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Ahmed Shaheen said:

I wonder why its legal to keep many Idiots in this site ?

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Moderator's Warning:

Please do not use personal attacks towards posters.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

shiznit770 said:

I am not refuting Israel's right to use massive force in response to the attacks. I only believe they have an obligation, as a First World country, to use force as a means towards peace and not retribution.

You have a point in regards to the West Bank. As far as I understand it is still being occupied yet there is little violence under its current political party. Ideally a similar situation could be created in Gaza, as the current one is a disaster, but it will require Israeli sacrifice of lives and time.

I do not envy Israel's situation. They as a people are facing tremendous opposition and they will strain that opposition further before there will be peace. If Israel does what is necessary to resolve this conflict I will be among the first to congratulate them.

The fact that they chose their homeland to be in the center of opposition curbs my sympathies and raises my expectations of them at the same time. However, I sometimes get too caught up in the debate and make harsh statements that I later cringe when reading. I hope you do not hold them against me, too much, and can see that my motives are not guided by hate or prejudice.

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Just so you are aware,. holding Israel to a higher set of expectations than others is one of the criteria that the EU identifies as anti-semitism. You might be surprised to know what else is defined as anti-semetic.

From the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC):

Contemporary examples of anti-Semitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

• Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
• Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as a collective - such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
• Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
• Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g., gas chambers), or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).
• Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
• Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

Examples of the ways in which anti-Semitism manifests itself with regard to the state of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

• Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination (e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor).
• Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
• Using the symbols and images associated with classic anti-Semitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as anti-Semitic.



“Working Definition” of Anti-Semitism

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And I do not hold your passions against you. Just remember to try to temper them with more critical observation when you get caught up in the moment.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Ahmed Shaheen said:

Oh wow , Sounds like UN is the God , So every partition it creat is Sacred and Holy and no one must argue, and deal with that ................ Senseless ...........

No one creat any partition in any country but its government, otherwise it is called : Invasion ...

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Irrelevant. The partition exists. Israel exists. Israel is not going anywhere. Complaining about the partition is pointless and leads NOWHERE. Don't like it? To bad. It's not going to change. Instead of complaining about this, perhaps the Palestinians should start trying to figure out how to stop causing their own people to get killed.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Ahmed Shaheen said:

UN partition : My ass .. Who is UN to creat partition without the agreement of the country ..

Is that democracy ?

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And everytime you bring up the partition, I will say the same thing. Irrelevant. The partition is exists. Israel exists. Israel is not going anywhere. Don't like it? To bad. Perhaps instead of complaining about the partition, something that will not change, the Palestinians should start acting on figuring out how not to get their people killed. A great way to do this would be to stop attacking Israel and to start focusing on their own citizens. Easy concept that they seem unwilling to do.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

shiznit770 said:

Do you set your kids up for failure and then punish them when they do? 80% of the Gaza population are refuges. Their government is in effect operating separately from the West Bank and their economic sector is on the verge of collapse. Toss in a blockade of humanitarian aid and you have a recipe for failure.

Personally I would throw my kid a lifeline by forcing him into rehab (occupying police force) and purging his self-destructive addictions (Hamas), not punch him in the face and watch him bleed.

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In the parent-child analogy, it is the child that has made the decision to operate as refugees by acting in the way they do. The West Bank children do not, and are not. This is not setting a child up for failure. This is a child refusing everything because it wants its own way and nothing else.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

CaptainCourtesy said:

Irrelevant. The partition exists. Israel exists. Israel is not going anywhere. Complaining about the partition is pointless and leads NOWHERE. Don't like it? To bad. It's not going to change. Instead of complaining about this, perhaps the Palestinians should start trying to figure out how to stop causing their own people to get killed.

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Uh, excuse me, I think Ahmed Shaheen’s point could be interpreted as one of self-determination (government/people) only have the right to partition. Maybe like a need to get into the Balfour Declaration thingy and who had authority after the Muslims sailed the ocean blue with their Jewish friends to rest on Ottomans in 1492, and the defeat in WWI which created a vacuum the so-called Palestinians did not take advantage of to beat Israel to the punch for 1948 borders. I am assuming that from Mr. Shaheen’s point of view Balfour was illegal and this is not about hypocrisy (which is the most hated of God), the Arab king had no right to give anything away. The only way around that is the fact the Ottoman Empire invited Jews into it as a precedent, the government of the defeated let Jews into it, the “zoning” like maps used to partition prove Jews occupied it, the Jews beat so-called Palestinians (really just Arabs) to the legal punch of Nationhood; Jews had a right to 1948 borders (government) before the Arabs attacked, and to more after they attacked and lost, all according to laws of conquest in absence of UN power, as nothing is without change. The so-called Palestinians and the Arab League should have proven themselves with the PLO and Arab states attaching Jordan in 1967, who was the occupier of Palestine at the time the PLO charter was created, they did not, the so-called Palestinians lost firm claim to the land right then.

Now, turn on your speakers, put this in a program to read it to you, and listen carefully.

“It's not going to change,” is an invalid argument. Liberalism and multiculturalism can kill Israeli culture by taking “In God We Trust” off the bible belt’s flag...if you know what I mean, and surely unresolved and continual warfare with states using terrorist proxies with impunity, with the aid and comfort of Oslo legally forgiving terrorism by the PLO, with “liberal“ Israelis basically saying lucrative life insurance for Hamas suicide bombers is not support for terrorism in violation of H32 of UN resolution 687 and a material breach of 1441, the cry “It's not going to change” is no defense of borders. The proverbs teach to bring the little kiddies up as you would have them go, for they understood nurture and cultural keeping, but the law also has a plan for nature’s child being too wild and unable to learn. “Liberals” are stupid about change and historically get surprised by its Obamanations.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

CaptainCourtesy said:

Just so you are aware,. holding Israel to a higher set of expectations than others is one of the criteria that the EU identifies as anti-semitism. You might be surprised to know what else is defined as anti-semetic.

From the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC):

And I do not hold your passions against you. Just remember to try to temper them with more critical observation when you get caught up in the moment.

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My higher expectations of Israel are in response to their actions which have been condemned by other democratic nations. There is no comparable situation in which to compare my expectations of Israel to. Such a statement is ambiguous and could not possibly be argued. Israel is unique in every way, find me a democracy with similar history and I'll gladly rethink my analysis.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Bodhisattva said:

This is a good site:

Israeli-Palestinian - ProCon.org

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This site has info about what qualifies a refuge from the 1948 and 1967 wars as well as the rights they are to receive under international law. I want information on the Israeli law that allows Palestinians citizenship.

Gaza would not be unstable if the Israelis simply kept it.
Appeasing Arab/Palestinian demands is like appeasing Hitler.

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Israel's made concessions in the West Bank, is the situation there improving?

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

CaptainCourtesy said:

In the parent-child analogy, it is the child that has made the decision to operate as refugees by acting in the way they do. The West Bank children do not, and are not. This is not setting a child up for failure. This is a child refusing everything because it wants its own way and nothing else.

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The West Bank is seeing prosperity with the help of Israeli policing and a popular moderate government. Gaza was taken after civil war by Hamas, blockaded, and left on its own.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

The whole situation is shameful and idiotic. The Israelis foolishly believe that Hamas can be eliminated by violence, and that peace can be maintained through a shameful and unjust occupation. Hamas idiodically believes that the occupation can be ended by violence.
Honestly I don't know why anyone would defend either side at this point. I do not adhere to the political consensus around here that Israel can do whatever it wants, blow up as many buildings, kill as many women and children as it does. At the same time I do not believe that there is any conceivable moral justification for blindly lobbing rockets into Israel, killing civilians. Shame on both sides, and God help the poor people trying to live peaceful lives in that troubled place.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Six months from now Israel will release bus loads of “Palestinians” from jail, and a few months after will be seen killing again. The pattern will repeat year after year for another generation or two, and every year a “what‘s his name” will still be held by some squat to leak Al Quacky Hezbollah...

The tragedy here is the lukewarm “liberal” arts of war, and the mealy-mouthed creatures who so hate violence, so a side cannot win a WAR, by design they enable and have created more terrorists and endless death than any unrelenting war ever created.

“OH NO, we might make a terrorist.”

Put an iron boot on the necks of Palestinians until they get their mind right. If the squat to leaks dress like women and shove salami bombs up their butts, rip off the veil and frack their squat to leaks until their race calls us grandpa. The only good Hamas is a dead Hamas.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Ahmed Shaheen said:

Hamas fired rockets weeks before, Israel is firing rockets since their invasion.

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I have to call the "bull**** card" on this one.

Israel did not do anything until Hamas attacked first.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

DivineComedy said:

Uh, excuse me, I think Ahmed Shaheen’s point could be interpreted as one of self-determination (government/people) only have the right to partition. Maybe like a need to get into the Balfour Declaration thingy and who had authority after the Muslims sailed the ocean blue with their Jewish friends to rest on Ottomans in 1492, and the defeat in WWI which created a vacuum the so-called Palestinians did not take advantage of to beat Israel to the punch for 1948 borders. I am assuming that from Mr. Shaheen’s point of view Balfour was illegal and this is not about hypocrisy (which is the most hated of God), the Arab king had no right to give anything away. The only way around that is the fact the Ottoman Empire invited Jews into it as a precedent, the government of the defeated let Jews into it, the “zoning” like maps used to partition prove Jews occupied it, the Jews beat so-called Palestinians (really just Arabs) to the legal punch of Nationhood; Jews had a right to 1948 borders (government) before the Arabs attacked, and to more after they attacked and lost, all according to laws of conquest in absence of UN power, as nothing is without change. The so-called Palestinians and the Arab League should have proven themselves with the PLO and Arab states attaching Jordan in 1967, who was the occupier of Palestine at the time the PLO charter was created, they did not, the so-called Palestinians lost firm claim to the land right then.

Now, turn on your speakers, put this in a program to read it to you, and listen carefully.

“It's not going to change,” is an invalid argument. Liberalism and multiculturalism can kill Israeli culture by taking “In God We Trust” off the bible belt’s flag...if you know what I mean, and surely unresolved and continual warfare with states using terrorist proxies with impunity, with the aid and comfort of Oslo legally forgiving terrorism by the PLO, with “liberal“ Israelis basically saying lucrative life insurance for Hamas suicide bombers is not support for terrorism in violation of H32 of UN resolution 687 and a material breach of 1441, the cry “It's not going to change” is no defense of borders. The proverbs teach to bring the little kiddies up as you would have them go, for they understood nurture and cultural keeping, but the law also has a plan for nature’s child being too wild and unable to learn. “Liberals” are stupid about change and historically get surprised by its Obamanations.

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Moderator's Warning:

DC, please stop the anti-liberal trolling and stay on topic. Your first paragraph was fine. Your second was not.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

CaptainCourtesy said:

Moderator's Warning:

Please do not use personal attacks towards posters.

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Oh, Did I mentioned any POSTER ?

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

DivineComedy said:

Uh, excuse me, I think Ahmed Shaheen’s point could be interpreted as one of self-determination (government/people) only have the right to partition. Maybe like a need to get into the Balfour Declaration thingy and who had authority after the Muslims sailed the ocean blue with their Jewish friends to rest on Ottomans in 1492, and the defeat in WWI which created a vacuum the so-called Palestinians did not take advantage of to beat Israel to the punch for 1948 borders. I am assuming that from Mr. Shaheen’s point of view Balfour was illegal and this is not about hypocrisy (which is the most hated of God), the Arab king had no right to give anything away. The only way around that is the fact the Ottoman Empire invited Jews into it as a precedent, the government of the defeated let Jews into it, the “zoning” like maps used to partition prove Jews occupied it, the Jews beat so-called Palestinians (really just Arabs) to the legal punch of Nationhood; Jews had a right to 1948 borders (government) before the Arabs attacked, and to more after they attacked and lost, all according to laws of conquest in absence of UN power, as nothing is without change. The so-called Palestinians and the Arab League should have proven themselves with the PLO and Arab states attaching Jordan in 1967, who was the occupier of Palestine at the time the PLO charter was created, they did not, the so-called Palestinians lost firm claim to the land right then.

Now, turn on your speakers, put this in a program to read it to you, and listen carefully.

“It's not going to change,” is an invalid argument. Liberalism and multiculturalism can kill Israeli culture by taking “In God We Trust” off the bible belt’s flag...if you know what I mean, and surely unresolved and continual warfare with states using terrorist proxies with impunity, with the aid and comfort of Oslo legally forgiving terrorism by the PLO, with “liberal“ Israelis basically saying lucrative life insurance for Hamas suicide bombers is not support for terrorism in violation of H32 of UN resolution 687 and a material breach of 1441, the cry “It's not going to change” is no defense of borders. The proverbs teach to bring the little kiddies up as you would have them go, for they understood nurture and cultural keeping, but the law also has a plan for nature’s child being too wild and unable to learn. “Liberals” are stupid about change and historically get surprised by its Obamanations.

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Thats What Iam exactly talking about concerning Balfour Declaration and the UN partition .

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Ahmed Shaheen said:

Thats What Iam exactly talking about concerning Balfour Declaration and the UN partition .

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And what is wrong with the UN partition? Oh, it didn't give EVERYTHING lock, stock, and barrel to the Arabs. THAT is what was wrong with the UN partition.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Ahmed Shaheen said:

Thats What Iam exactly talking about concerning Balfour Declaration and the UN partition .

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Glad I could be of some help.

PS. You need to be careful I wouldn’t want you to get in trouble with the Obamanation’s big brother and the protector of national socialist lovers. {see the movie “Citizen Kane“ by Orson Welles and look for the balcony scene with Hitler, or read “Gullivers's Travels” by Jonathan Swift and his voyage to Cap'n Crunch land where they had those tiny little brains} “Most Americans are stupid and ignorant, we elected Bush.” That was alright to say for years, but now that the Obamanation has landed, American Che lovers and Chavez lovers are having orgasms in Hollywood, you better not demean the “liberal” US; Louis Farrakhan’s Messiah is definitely speaking. Shhhh! Don’t respond. It’s very dangerous, the Obamanation’s big brother could lop a head off at any moment for a poster daring to be anti-Nazi. Repeat after me, “’Liberals’ are the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human beings I've ever known in my life."

“And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.” (Revelation 13:7)

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

faminedynasty said:

The whole situation is shameful and idiotic. The Israelis foolishly believe that Hamas can be eliminated by violence, and that peace can be maintained through a shameful and unjust occupation. Hamas idiodically believes that the occupation can be ended by violence.
Honestly I don't know why anyone would defend either side at this point. I do not adhere to the political consensus around here that Israel can do whatever it wants, blow up as many buildings, kill as many women and children as it does. At the same time I do not believe that there is any conceivable moral justification for blindly lobbing rockets into Israel, killing civilians. Shame on both sides, and God help the poor people trying to live peaceful lives in that troubled place.

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Hamas is not trying to live in peace. I'm sorry you believe this nonsensical bull****.

I hope you wake up and smell the roses.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Vader said:

Hamas is not trying to live in peace. I'm sorry you believe this nonsensical bull****.

I hope you wake up and smell the roses.

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This post doesn't even seem to be remotely related to the post you quoted. Maybe you need to re-read his post.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

EgoffTib said:

This post doesn't even seem to be remotely related to the post you quoted. Maybe you need to re-read his post.

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The liberal approach to war during WWII could be said to be “kill, surrender, peace,” but the “liberal” approach to war today by Israel against an enemy worse than the smartly uniformed fascist of the axis powers is, “kill, cease-fire, release prisoners, kill, cease-fire, release prisoners, kill, cease-fire, release prisoners, kill, cease-fire, release prisoners, kill...

“Hamas idiodically believes that the occupation can be ended by violence.”

Vader is looking at this from reality. Non-violence is futile. He is, I think, in my words, putting more onus on the Hamas due to their Islamifascist Black Stone Idolatrous talking to rocks and trees to find All the Jews to kill, which is articulated in their Satanic Verses Charter.

Hamas is not trying to end the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, they want to destroy Israel because judgment day cannot come until they kill the Jews.

Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

Vader said:

Hamas is not trying to live in peace. I'm sorry you believe this nonsensical bull****.

I hope you wake up and smell the roses.

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Why do you force people to smell (what you think) is rose , and wake (from what you see) is sleeping.

I can easily tell you to wake up and smell roses, but that never means that my opinion is right.