View Poll Results: Is Israel still seeking for peace ? Read the post below :

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Thread: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for peace ?

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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Torin View Post
    L
    A final point... Even if the Palestinians were the initial antagonists (which they weren't), you have to consider that for the most part, they throw rocks and sticks. The Israelis have the best pilots in the world and, outside of America, the best air-fleet. They. Are. Well. Armed. Period. And they're not attacking the Palestinians with rubber bullets and tear-gas: they're using lead.
    I would hardly call lob rockets rocks and sticks.

    Like I've said before, if any country, for any reason what so ever directly attacked american soil like the "Palestinians"/Hamas had... you would see VERY dire consequences for that country.
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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Shewter View Post
    I would hardly call lob rockets rocks and sticks.

    Like I've said before, if any country, for any reason what so ever directly attacked american soil like the "Palestinians"/Hamas had... you would see VERY dire consequences for that country.
    Oh, I'm grouping HAMAS as a different entity than the Palestinian people. Let's include them, then. Rockets v. Air-strikes. It's not nearly an equal exchange, especially considering that the number of Palestinian civies killed far, far out-numbers the Israelis. "You killed my brother... So I'm going to kill your entire family and everyone you know." No matter how you slice it, we're looking at a weak insurgence v. extremely powerful military.

    So let's lay this down. Almost four decades of extreme oppression doesn't justify some kind of response? It's okay for Israel to steal and colonize an inhabited land, killing and removing those inhabitants along the way, but it's not okay for those people to fight back by whatever means they can?

    I just want you guys to answer me a simple question: what do you think is each side's root cause for participating in this conflict?

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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Torin View Post
    Oh, I'm grouping HAMAS as a different entity than the Palestinian people. Let's include them, then. Rockets v. Air-strikes. It's not nearly an equal exchange, especially considering that the number of Palestinian civies killed far, far out-numbers the Israelis. "You killed my brother... So I'm going to kill your entire family and everyone you know." No matter how you slice it, we're looking at a weak insurgence v. extremely powerful military.
    I don't care about an equal exchange.

    My point was, launch a rocket into the U.S. and see how we deal with that. I would not expect any other country to react any differently.

    Or you could look at it from this point of view.

    Would you fight a den of bears with sticks and rocks?
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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Shewter View Post
    I don't care about an equal exchange.

    My point was, launch a rocket into the U.S. and see how we deal with that. I would not expect any other country to react any differently.

    Or you could look at it from this point of view.

    Would you fight a den of bears with sticks and rocks?
    That analogy would work if the bears moved into your camp and started killing your friends and destroying your property. In which case, yes. I would try and fight to protect my people and property by whatever means I have. Or I would flee, of course. That sadly isn't an option for the Palestinians, because of the checkpoint system that the Israelis have set up all throughout the native's lands. So... What do you suggest they do? Roll over and die? Because that's kind of their only other option, as long as the U.S. supports Israel.

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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Torin View Post
    That analogy would work if the bears moved into your camp and started killing your friends and destroying your property. In which case, yes. I would try and fight to protect my people and property by whatever means I have. Or I would flee, of course. That sadly isn't an option for the Palestinians, because of the checkpoint system that the Israelis have set up all throughout the native's lands. So... What do you suggest they do? Roll over and die? Because that's kind of their only other option, as long as the U.S. supports Israel.
    I don't believe I have seen the Israeli Defensive Forces needlessly killing people just to do it.

    Actually, come to think of it. I can only recall them KILLING people when they had been provoked.


    What do you think they should do? Honestly, do you think they should lob rockets into a country that could annihilate them? What purpose does it serve?

    I honestly don't understand what people expect from the Palestinians.

    I hear the anti-Israeli side of things "Israel needs to back off" "Israel shouldnt use that kind of force" but I don't exactly hear anything to the tune of "The Palestinian people need to unite and throw out the organization that is provoking israel to attack in order to paint them in a bad light to the rest of the world via media coverage and propoganda" or "Palestinians need to send a clear message to Israel that they would like nothing more than to sleep easy at night knowing that their own "government" was not trying hide weapons in their mosque and schools."
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Don't apologize to me over that silly ****. I could care less if I can see the dust or not.
    Now apologize for apologizing!

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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Torin View Post
    Let me define my terms, then -- I call the systematic destruction of a peoples and their way of life genocide. And since when does, "Israeli feelings of religious entitlement in regards to a patch of land," translate to Palestinian aggression? It really sounds to me like you don't have the foggiest as to why this conflict exists in the first place. Or can you enlighten me?
    Here is the Wikipedia definition:

    Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.
    Israel is not deliberately trying to destroy the Palestinians. If they were, the Palestinians would be destroyed. You are completely wrong and neither understand the conflict nor the term. Sorry. That's known as "fail".

    Also, just as an aside... If genocide doesn't exist, what do you call the Holocaust? A different word with the exact same connotations? Or maybe you're saying that mass killings don't occur, in which case I simply don't wish to converse with you, and anyone else of your ilk around here.
    Irrelevant to the issue. Genocide does not exist in the context you claimed. I never said that genocide does not exist in any context. Please do not subscribe to me a position I did not take.

    A final point... Even if the Palestinians were the initial antagonists (which they weren't), you have to consider that for the most part, they throw rocks and sticks. The Israelis have the best pilots in the world and, outside of America, the best air-fleet. They. Are. Well. Armed. Period. And they're not attacking the Palestinians with rubber bullets and tear-gas: they're using lead.
    The Palestinians were the initial antagonists, and it is irrelevant as to who is better armed. They are the aggressors and that is what matters. I suppose if the Palestinians do not want to be killed, since they only have substandard weaponry, they should not attack a country that is so well armed. Unfortunately, making good choices, does not seem to be one of the Palestinians' better attributes.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Torin View Post
    By my definition of the word, Wikipedia's, and Dictionary.com's, there IS a genocide. By hey, we're obviously unreliable sources, right?
    As I proved, there is not. You do not understand the term.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Post Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    I don't believe I have seen the Israeli Defensive Forces needlessly killing people just to do it.
    Actually, come to think of it. I can only recall them KILLING people when they had been provoked.
    What do you think they should do? Honestly, do you think they should lob rockets into a country that could annihilate them? What purpose does it serve?
    I honestly don't understand what people expect from the Palestinians.
    I hear the anti-Israeli side of things "Israel needs to back off" "Israel shouldnt use that kind of force" but I don't exactly hear anything to the tune of "The Palestinian people need to unite and throw out the organization that is provoking israel to attack in order to paint them in a bad light to the rest of the world via media coverage and propoganda" or "Palestinians need to send a clear message to Israel that they would like nothing more than to sleep easy at night knowing that their own "government" was not trying hide weapons in their mosque and schools."
    No. They shouldn't lob rockets into a country that could annihilate them... You just solved part of the puzzle yourself, there; if it is something that they ought not to do, why are they doing it? I've asked this question before, and nobody answered it, so here it is again --

    What do you think is each side's root cause for participating in this conflict?
    Israel is not deliberately trying to destroy the Palestinians. If they were, the Palestinians would be destroyed. You are completely wrong and neither understand the conflict nor the term. Sorry. That's known as "fail".
    Ah, I'm sorry. I consider mass murder, permanent quartering, demolishing homes, creating a checkpoint system that forces people to wait days to travel just a few miles, and colonizing that land as you remove it's occupants, all symptoms of trying to destroy a people. Of course, like I said... You're ignorant on the topic aside from the snippets you gather from reliable sources like Bill O'Reilly and Rush.

    Irrelevant to the issue. Genocide does not exist in the context you claimed. I never said that genocide does not exist in any context. Please do not subscribe to me a position I did not take.
    Strange, because I think you literally said, "Firstly, genocide doesn't exist." Those were your actual words, unless someone edited your post. Sorry. That's known as, "fail."

    The Palestinians were the initial antagonists, and it is irrelevant as to who is better armed. They are the aggressors and that is what matters. I suppose if the Palestinians do not want to be killed, since they only have substandard weaponry, they should not attack a country that is so well armed. Unfortunately, making good choices, does not seem to be one of the Palestinians' better attributes.
    Right. Unfortunately, logic does not seem to be one of your better attributes. Unless you're saying that the Palestinian people as a whole are entirely suicidal, how does it make sense to say they'd start a fight with a much better armed opponent? Maybe you should go back and answer my earlier question.

    As I proved, there is not. You do not understand the term.
    Uh, when? What did you prove? All you showed is your ignorance regarding the situation.

    As an aside -- I'm not sure why we started passing around 'fails' and such, but if we're going to have a conversation, can we leave out all the insults and such? ...And can you answer my question? It is pretty much vital towards this topic.

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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Torin View Post
    Ah, I'm sorry. I consider mass murder, permanent quartering, demolishing homes, creating a checkpoint system that forces people to wait days to travel just a few miles, and colonizing that land as you remove it's occupants, all symptoms of trying to destroy a people. Of course, like I said... You're ignorant on the topic aside from the snippets you gather from reliable sources like Bill O'Reilly and Rush.
    Consider what you want. I doesn't define genocide. Genocide is not happening in Palestine, as defined by the word.concept. It is obvious that you do not understand the topic, as you cannot even grasp the terms.

    And I have never watched either O'Reilly, or Rush. I abhor all those idiotic partisan talking heads. Be they left, or be they right.


    Strange, because I think you literally said, "Firstly, genocide doesn't exist." Those were your actual words, unless someone edited your post. Sorry. That's known as, "fail."
    You misinterpreted. Seems like your style. And a poor debating style it is.


    Right. Unfortunately, logic does not seem to be one of your better attributes. Unless you're saying that the Palestinian people as a whole are entirely suicidal, how does it make sense to say they'd start a fight with a much better armed opponent? Maybe you should go back and answer my earlier question.
    More evidence that you do not understand the situation in the ME. They seem to have several purposes to this: 1) to continue to play the victim; 2) to, vainly, attempt to garner international support; 3) because the extremists of their religion believe that their religion directs them; 4) because they believe that their terror activities will eventually cause them to win; 5) because they continue to be angry about 60 year old issues rather than moving on and setting up their country; 6) they are illogical.

    Now, whatever their purpose/reason is really doesn't matter. They are the aggressors, they continue to breach Israel's sovereignty, forcing Israel to protect herself. This is on them.


    Uh, when? What did you prove? All you showed is your ignorance regarding the situation.

    As an aside -- I'm not sure why we started passing around 'fails' and such, but if we're going to have a conversation, can we leave out all the insults and such? ...And can you answer my question? It is pretty much vital towards this topic.
    You started the insulting and aggression and have continued it. I'd advise you to cease the behavior. Consider this an official warning, and if you have any issues with it, PM me or another mod. Posting such is a violation of Forum Rules.

    Now that we have gotten that out of the way, if you choose to post civilly, without your nastiness, I'd be happy to address your question. If not, I'll just watch, and when you act out, I'll deal with you on a different level.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    If you don't consider it genocide, or if you're incapable of using the word genocide, then conceed to mass killings in the occcupied territories, then you don't know what's occuring over there. End of story.

    You misinterpreted. Seems like your style. And a poor debating style it is.
    You know that I quoted you word for word, right? I don't think it is really possible to misinterpret, "firstly, genocide doesn't exist," because that sentence in any possible context still means the same thing.

    More evidence that you do not understand the situation in the ME. They seem to have several purposes to this: 1) to continue to play the victim; 2) to, vainly, attempt to garner international support; 3) because the extremists of their religion believe that their religion directs them; 4) because they believe that their terror activities will eventually cause them to win; 5) because they continue to be angry about 60 year old issues rather than moving on and setting up their country; 6) they are illogical.

    Now, whatever their purpose/reason is really doesn't matter. They are the aggressors, they continue to breach Israel's sovereignty, forcing Israel to protect herself. This is on them.
    Actually, that last sentence there proves you're the one who doesn't understand the situation -- you don't even consider the reasons of the conflict relevant. And you're saying an entire people is illogical? How likely is that? They're just people. It, again, sounds like you've got no idea what you're talking about. You don't, to go back to the earlier metaphore, poke a bear without provication. These people were provoked.

    You started the insulting and aggression and have continued it. I'd advise you to cease the behavior. Consider this an official warning, and if you have any issues with it, PM me or another mod. Posting such is a violation of Forum Rules.

    Now that we have gotten that out of the way, if you choose to post civilly, without your nastiness, I'd be happy to address your question. If not, I'll just watch, and when you act out, I'll deal with you on a different level.
    You started it, actually. Though, I have a feeling you skipped over the part of my last post where I actually pointed that out. And I suppose I'll send a PM or two out, and see if the other mods agree with you. Who knows? Maybe this place is insular enough for them to defend you. I'm new enough here to be unsure. In any case, I'm happy to stop insults if you are -- warning aside.

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