View Poll Results: Is Israel still seeking for peace ? Read the post below :

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    54 46.15%
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    63 53.85%
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Thread: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for peace ?

  1. #801
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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    It is still aggression.
    Irrelevant to my position and the facts of the situation.


    I hope you aren't suggesting that the UN can decide what is right.
    I am suggesting that the UN has already done this and their decision is binding and in place. Arguing the Partition Plan is pointless. Israel exists. The Palestinians need to figure out how to deal with this. Their current set of choices has worked out badly for them.

    But that presentation couldn't be made. They don't tend to be like that, they just tend to actually criticise Israel now and again, but to some that is considered anti-Israeli. And it isn't Europeans, it is the rest of the West. I'm in Australia and it is much the same. Personally I'm a supporter of Israel as much as I am the Palestinians I just criticise Israel from when appropriate.
    And I disagree. And as a European, you cannot assess as you are too close to the situation to be objective. This is why each of our perceptions of either the US's or Europe's biases are irrelevant to debate, since they cannot be objective.


    And that is an incorrect perception, the problem is American seem to consider any criticism as being anti-Israel.
    No, it is an accurate perception. The problem is that Europeans seem to consider any support of Israel as being anti-Palestinian.

    See how it works? This is why it is a pointless issue in debate. Each of our perceptions is based on the subjectivity of where we live and our experiences and perceptions. Neither is accurate, and neither further the debate.
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  2. #802
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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Irrelevant to my position and the facts of the situation.
    Not really, their aggression predates Hamas'




    I am suggesting that the UN has already done this and their decision is binding and in place. Arguing the Partition Plan is pointless. Israel exists. The Palestinians need to figure out how to deal with this. Their current set of choices has worked out badly for them.
    So what you are saying is the UN decides what is right. This however does not excuse the Isreali theft of land with Britain's help nor the terrorist attacks against my countrymen.

    And I disagree. And as a European, you cannot assess as you are too close to the situation to be objective. This is why each of our perceptions of either the US's or Europe's biases are irrelevant to debate, since they cannot be objective.
    I'm in Australia.

    No, it is an accurate perception. The problem is that Europeans seem to consider any support of Israel as being anti-Palestinian.
    When have I ever given cause for that perception? I have said both are wrong and need to find a joint solution.

    My points on Americans in general were correct.


    See how it works? This is why it is a pointless issue in debate. Each of our perceptions is based on the subjectivity of where we live and our experiences and perceptions. Neither is accurate, and neither further the debate.
    It is only working that way because you are trying to make it so.
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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Israel is still occupying and settling the Westbank. If France did that to Dorset I'd consider it an act of war. Both sides are to blame and both need to seek a peaceful solution. The blind apologetics of Americans don't help.
    The current occupation is legal pending a final status agreement. Remember that the occupation was a result of a war started by the Arabs in 1967. The West Bank was a part of Jordan at the time. There has never been a State of Palestine. Until there is a treaty that deals with the West Bank, the technical status is one of belligerant occuption. That is not an act of war.
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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Actually it is an act of war to maintain the occupation and settlement. There is continual taking of land by settlers.
    Maintaining the occupation pending the final agreement is NOT illegal, regardless of the length of time.

    However, you are right about the settlements. Those ARE illegal.
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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    It is still aggression.

    The occupation is not aggression. It is a result of the aggression of Arabs. Israel has the right to maintain military occupation until the status of the territory is determined by the relevant parties involved. The part that makes this a bit muddled is that Jordan has unilaterally renounced its claims over the territory.
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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Not really, their aggression predates Hamas'
    We all know the Arabs aggression predates Hamas'.
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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Not really, their aggression predates Hamas'.
    But it doesn't predate aggression from Palestinians/Arabs in general. As I said, this makes it irrelevant to my position.

    So what you are saying is the UN decides what is right. This however does not excuse the Isreali theft of land with Britain's help nor the terrorist attacks against my countrymen.
    The UN decided the Partition Plan and their decision is binding and will not change. Again, arguing the Partition Plan is pointless as it yields no solutions; it only places blame. Israel exists. Palestinians need to figure out better methods of dealing with this fact.

    And I never said anything about how pre-Israeli forces acted before the Partition was put in place.


    I'm in Australia.
    Irrelevant. You are British. In fact, you indicated as such in your previous paragraph. That connects you to Europe.

    When have I ever given cause for that perception? I have said both are wrong and need to find a joint solution.
    I was not referring to you, I was speaking about Europeans in general. I assumed you were not speaking about me, but Americans in general. If you were speaking about me, I can easily direct you to posts where I have been critical of Israel, and supported Palestinian positions (such as the settlements, for example).

    My points on Americans in general were correct.
    And my points on Europeans in general were correct.


    It is only working that way because you are trying to make it so.
    No, it is working because it is accurate.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #808
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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The occupation is not aggression. It is a result of the aggression of Arabs.
    Which was predated by the aggression of the Israelis. You don't want to go down that route.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  9. #809
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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    But it doesn't predate aggression from Palestinians/Arabs in general. As I said, this makes it irrelevant to my position.
    Actually it does predate it is you want to keep going back. Israel was founded on theft.

    The UN decided the Partition Plan and their decision is binding and will not change. Again, arguing the Partition Plan is pointless as it yields no solutions; it only places blame. Israel exists. Palestinians need to figure out better methods of dealing with this fact.
    The UN does not decide right and wrong. The UN was faced with a fait accompli and acted accordingly. The setting up of Israel was aggression if you want to keep trying to go back.







    Irrelevant. You are British. In fact, you indicated as such in your previous paragraph. That connects you to Europe.
    However the attitude is the same here. Your use of the term European is limiting. It is basically the attitude of the world except America who actually cares.
    I was not referring to you, I was speaking about Europeans in general. I assumed you were not speaking about me, but Americans in general. If you were speaking about me, I can easily direct you to posts where I have been critical of Israel, and supported Palestinian positions (such as the settlements, for example).
    Europeans or at least Britons in general don't think like that.

    And my points on Europeans in general were correct.
    Don't as far as I have seen.

    No, it is working because it is accurate.
    No it isn't.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  10. #810
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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Which was predated by the aggression of the Israelis. You don't want to go down that route.
    Israel was founded in 1948 and was immediately invaded by its Arab neighbors.
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