View Poll Results: Is Israel still seeking for peace ? Read the post below :

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Thread: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for peace ?

  1. #1051
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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Torin View Post
    You know what term means. Whether you choose to believe it's happening or not doesn't really change what's going on. Whatever sources you have are wrong -- outside of America, most of the world agrees with me. Israel is seen as an aggressor. I'll post some sources soon just to finish with this nonsense.
    Most of us seem to understand what the term means, even if you do not.


    I didn't back off from the term genocide. It IS a genocide. Israelis are literally killing Palestinians in the streets. There aren't giant ovens, but Israel isn't going to stop until that land is indisputably theirs... And that entails the destruction of the natives.
    Genocide is about killing people, not occupying land.

    genocide   /ˈdʒɛnəˌsaɪd/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [jen-uh-sahyd] Show IPA Pronunciation

    –noun the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.


    genocide definition | Dictionary.com

    That is very different from a war:

    war   /wɔr/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [wawr] Show IPA Pronunciation
    noun, verb, warred, war⋅ring, adjective

    –noun 1. a conflict carried on by force of arms, as between nations or between parties within a nation; warfare, as by land, sea, or air.
    2. a state or period of armed hostility or active military operations: The two nations were at war with each other.
    3. a contest carried on by force of arms, as in a series of battles or campaigns: the War of 1812.
    4. active hostility or contention; conflict; contest: a war of words.



    Unless you think that Hitler was conducting a genocide on teh british during the Battle Of Britain or the Americans were conducting genocide against the Japanese, then I would understand your opinion, otherwise your use of the term against the Israelies is simply ludicrous.




    Uh, what? Had you added the term, "In Palestine," that'd make sense. But hey, you're allowed to backpeddle on whatever points you'd like.
    Nope, in reading all that crap between you two, it was crystal clear that he made perfect sense.
    Sorry that you can't or won't accept this simple truth... *shrugs*



    I don't care that Israel exists. It's whatever. What bothers me is that they choose to use their might to pick on their neighbor because they feel entitled to more land. That is what's going on.

    I think that this simple little research will help you greatly.

    History of the Arab–Israeli conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Go to primary source documents and read further, by all means...
    But man, you have no freaking idea what you are talking about to this point.


    If you don't believe me, you need to do the research.

    ORIGIN OF THE ISSUE:

    After World War I, the British gained lands in the M.E. that had belonged to the Ottoman Empire since 1520 or so. After 1919, the British Mandate of Palestine, which the League of Nations entrusted to the United Kingdom to administer in the aftermath of World War I, became a Mandate Territory and the U.K. tried to govern fairly so that both the Arabs and the Jews would be able to live peacably together in separate lands.

    1. Britain told the Arabs, through Lawrence of Arabia, independence for a united Arab country covering most of the Arab Middle East, in exchange for their supporting the British. This area did not include Palestine.

    "I feel it my duty to state, and I do so definitely and emphatically, that it was not intended by me in giving this pledge to King Hussein to include Palestine in the area in which Arab independence was promised. I also had every reason to believe at the time that the fact that Palestine was not included in my pledge was well understood by King Hussein"


    The Hussein-MacMahon Correspondence

    2. Britain had promised to create and foster a Jewish national home as laid out in the Balfour Declaration, 1917.

    "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

    The Balfour Declaration

    Tensions were up from the beginning. As tens of thousands of Jews immigrated to the ME, many Arabs started to resent it. Violence ensued as Arabs attacked and killed Jewish civilians over issues like land ownership, and ownership of what grows on the land. Different understandings of ownership and miscommunication coupled with increasing numbers of Jews immigrating and being diplaced by rising anti-semtism over time and into the 1930's and Hitler/Facism say an increase in violence.

    WWII had a major effect on the situation in Palestine. During the war, the British forbade entry into Palestine of European Jews escaping Nazi persecution, placing them in detention camps or deporting them to places such as Mauritius.

    Following the war, 250,000 Jewish refugees were stranded in displaced persons camps in Europe. Despite the pressure of world opinion, in particular the repeated requests of US President Harry S. Truman and the recommendations of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, the British refused to lift the ban on immigration and admit 100,000 displaced persons to Palestine. The Jewish underground forces then united and carried out several attacks against the British. In 1946, the Irgun blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the headquarters of the British administration, killing 92 people.

    Seeing that the situation was quickly spiraling out of hand, the British announced their desire to terminate their mandate and to withdraw by May 1948.



    III. Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, set forth in part III of this plan, shall come into existence in Palestine two months after the evacuation of the armed forces of the mandatory Power has been completed but in any case not later than 1 October 1948. The boundaries of the Arab State, the Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem shall be as described in parts II and III below.

    A/RES/181(II)(A+B) of 29 November 1947


    The U.N. votes on the creation of two States: one for the Jewish inhabitants of the Palestine Mandate, and a second one for the Arab inhabitants. The Jewish residents accept, but the Arabs and Palestinians refuse the two State solution and the 1948 war is under way.

    It is quite clear that the Arabs feel slighted due to a misunderstanding. They were never promised the Palestine area, but they feel that the encroachment of the Jews and the ommishion of Palestine to their territory justifies violence. Gradually, over time, the Israelies have tightened their grip.

    I do not want to get into modern policies, nor do I want to talk about the 1967 War or any other until we can nail down and address the root of the issue. If one side or another is operating off of a false premise of righteousness, then that is how we begin to address a solution.


    “Israel is the only state in the world today, and the Jews the only people in the world today, that are the object of a standing set of threats from governmental, religious, and terrorist bodies seeking their destruction. And what is most disturbing is the silence, the indifference, and sometimes even the indulgence, in the face of such genocidal anti-Semitism.”

    — Canadian Minister of Justice and Attorney General Irwin Cotler





    And if you're going to sit there and blame Palestinians for the current drama, answer this question -- why did the occupation start to begin with? Or better yet, answer the question you've dodged twice now -- What were both sides root causes for participating in this conflict? The fact you won't respond to that question says to me that you don't know the answer.
    Answered...



    I really think you should go and do more background research. I'm not joking.
    Neither am I...



    And Sir Lion - When you debate with a mod, I guess you should expect a little fanboy-ism, but just so you know, he doesn't really need your support. He's a fine debater, even if he is a little factually mistaken.
    Now, you and I can have our own debate if you like, I simply used your discussion with him as a starting point. So, I think I have seen all you have to offer... no evidence and lots of conjecture, but just in case, what else you got?
    Last edited by Bodhisattva; 01-23-09 at 08:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Stick to the point at hand. You didn't talk about "State Governments". You are changing your argument to fit what you think will help you win a point that you either mis-spoke about or don't understand.

    You talked about what happened over a thousand years ago not being relevant to what is happening today. THAT is why you indicated that his analogy was wrong. If you want to make another case or point then fine, acknowledge that on the initial point, he was right and you assessment was wrong. Einstein didn't say E=MC4 and then when called on it, said... no no no, it is E=MC2 and THAT is why I am right and you were wrong. The analogy here was about assessment...

    That being said, we are talking about religious leaders in the postion of authority. Governments of any kind are fair game. Theocracy, oligarchy, democracy, military dictatorship, etc. If they are lead by the religious, the his analogy is correct regardless.

    Christianity may not actively teach violence, but the Inqusition and the Crusades were EXTREMELY violent actions undertaken in the name of their religion. So were the Salem Witch Trials... as far as affecting percentage of population, the trials were a really big deal. How is that any different than radical Islamists hi-jacking Islam today? It is like you are saying, since there are a billion Chinese and they are an extremely oppressive society that invades and rules innocent Tibet, then Budhists are violent too... the crazy budhist saren gas attacks, etc.

    See how far off point I am getting in order to make a point... that is you. Deal with it.
    What happened hundreds of years ago doesn't matter. What happens today does. Excusing muslim violence because some Christians did it hundreds of years ago is lame. You can't justify militant Islam because some people did it hundreds of years ago. The Koran teaches violence to further the cause of Islam. That is the point and it is a fact. Christianity does not teach violence to further the cause of Christianity and that is the ponit and it is a fact. Deal with it.

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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    What happened hundreds of years ago doesn't matter.
    Nobody said that it did. Where do you get this stuff?


    What happens today does.
    Of course...


    Excusing muslim violence because some Christians did it hundreds of years ago is lame.
    Who is excusing the Muslim violence of today? *looks around*
    Nobody here seems to be doing that, at least not Ego or I, that is...



    You can't justify militant Islam because some people did it hundreds of years ago.
    Who is trying to justify anything? I think that the issue here is that you make huge assumptions and in your zeal to be right you pass them off as logical analysis.



    The Koran teaches violence to further the cause of Islam. That is the point and it is a fact.
    Debatable... I agree that it talks a lot about violence as a means to further, or protect, Islam.



    Christianity does not teach violence to further the cause of Christianity and that is the ponit and it is a fact.
    It "teaches" or discusses violence every bit as much as the Qu'ran, it just does so about other topics, in general. THAT is the point that we are making. If you want to contend that Christianity does not teach violence in order to FURTHER its religion, then I might grant you that, but it teaches violence in many other horrible and disgusting ways, and THAT, my friend, is a fact that you continually seem to willfully ignore... to your detriment.



    Deal with it.
    Stealing my line doesn't make you clever...
    It simply shows lack of wit of your own.



    EDIT

    Ummm... what about post #1049?

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1057897308
    Last edited by Bodhisattva; 01-23-09 at 09:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Jesus Christ is the founder of Christianity and the New Testament is the instruction book. Show me where it is taught by Jesus or any of his disciples to carry out violence to further the cause of Christianity. I can show you many passages in the Koran where Muhammed (the founder of Islam) did promote violence to further the cause of Islam. That is not debatable at all. Those are the facts. Also, the Old Testament is not part of Christianity. Saying it is does not make it so. Chrisitans follow the teachings of Jesus. Muslims follow the teachings of Muhammed. Deal with that.
    Last edited by walleye; 01-23-09 at 09:20 PM.

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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Torin View Post


    Massive acquisition of new land and occupation was the policy they chose towards that new land.

    Security and defense of Israel's borders and population were/are the reasons for the occupation. Land has never been the issue as evidence by Israel returning the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt, and the disengagement and pulling out of most of the settlements in both Gaza and the West Bank. If Israel's focus was new land, the things I mentioned would not have occurred.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    Jesus Christ is the founder of Christianity and the New Testament is the instruction book. Show me where it is taught by Jesus or any of his disciples to carry out violence to further the cause of Christianity.
    Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests : Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

    Killing Fortunetellers : "A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death." (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

    Killing Nonbelievers : "They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    Jesus Christ is the founder of Christianity and the New Testament is the instruction book. Show me where it is taught by Jesus or any of his disciples to carry out violence to further the cause of Christianity. I can show you many passages in the Koran where Muhammed (the founder of Islam) did promote violence to further the cause of Islam. That is not debatable at all. Those are the facts. Also, the Old Testament is not part of Christianity. Saying it is does not make it so. Chrisitans follow the teachings of Jesus. Muslims follow the teachings of Muhammed. Deal with that.
    Apples to apples would be old testament vs Quran (sp?)

    Islam just hasnt progressed past that book.
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    Now apologize for apologizing!

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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests : Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

    Killing Fortunetellers : "A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death." (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

    Killing Nonbelievers : "They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
    Just a quick note Ahmed, that is not the New Testament in which they were referring to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Don't apologize to me over that silly ****. I could care less if I can see the dust or not.
    Now apologize for apologizing!

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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    Jesus Christ is the founder of Christianity and the New Testament is the instruction book.
    How can he be the founder of something that did not come into being until after he was dead? Christianity was based off of Christ's teaching, but he was hardly the founder.

    Show me where it is taught by Jesus or any of his disciples to carry out violence to further the cause of Christianity.
    It is not. Again, you choose to be willfully ignorant about the violence your God condoned in the Old Testament. Your religion made mistakes and they have learned from them. So will Islam.

    I can show you many passages in the Koran where Muhammed (the founder of Islam) did promote violence to further the cause of Islam.
    You tried that once, then Degreez showed up and put you in your place by showing the context of your quotes.

    Also, the Old Testament is not part of Christianity. Saying it is does not make it so. Chrisitans follow the teachings of Jesus. Muslims follow the teachings of Muhammed. Deal with that.
    Oh really? The OT is not a part of Christianity? Interesting then, that it is in your holy book.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: OMG.. About 300 killed and 700 injured. Do you think Israel still seeking for pea

    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    Jesus Christ is the founder of Christianity and the New Testament is the instruction book. Show me where it is taught by Jesus or any of his disciples to carry out violence to further the cause of Christianity. I can show you many passages in the Koran where Muhammed (the founder of Islam) did promote violence to further the cause of Islam. That is not debatable at all. Those are the facts. Also, the Old Testament is not part of Christianity. Saying it is does not make it so. Chrisitans follow the teachings of Jesus. Muslims follow the teachings of Muhammed. Deal with that.
    Christiananity says to turn the other cheek and look the other way...if it happens again then to strike back like a lion....pretty much sums up what the Israelis did...
    Last edited by creativedreams; 01-24-09 at 01:47 PM.

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