View Poll Results: Regarding your support for Oftencold's Rec. Drug Legalization Proposal:

Voters
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  • I support Oftencold's Rec. Drug Legalization Proposal

    3 13.04%
  • I do not support Oftencold's Rec. Drug Legalization Proposal

    14 60.87%
  • Oftencold's Rec. Drug Legalization Proposal is too harsh

    6 26.09%
  • Oftencold's Rec. Drug Legalization Proposal in to lenient

    3 13.04%
  • I am a drug dealer

    2 8.70%
  • I am a drug user

    3 13.04%
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Thread: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

  1. #61
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If drugs were legalized, the black market would be eliminated and the vast majority of drug-related crimes would vanish overnight.
    I believe this would eventually happen but not overnight. Production would still have to shift to legal sources, and with regulation I still believe only certain companies would be given licensing rights to product these narcotics. No government would ever allow such a shift unless it was getting a piece of the profit.

    In order for something to be taxed effectively it still has to be controlled by a select group. It would still be illegal for you to grow it yourself or produce it yourself because that would be escaping the taxation process. This would be that instead of the war on drugs, you have a war on people escaping taxation... it would just shift to the battle to a different realm.

    Also, government anything is crap, sorry to say. In Canada, they have fields of pot growing in Manitoba for medical users... but as most medical users will tell you, government pot is crap. Most users still turn to illegal dealers to get their medication. I would only be in favor of legalization if it meant I could grow any of these plants myself without penalty or fine, then I could control the strength, quantity and quality myself.

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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    I'm completely in favor of legalizing the use, possession, cultivation, manufacturing, distribution, and sale of all drugs. Just slap a surgeon general's warning on them, make sure stores aren't selling them to minors, and institute whatever tax the government decides. Aside from that, most drugs don't really need a great deal of regulation.

    I would make exceptions for drugs that make people exceptionally violent, like PCP. In cases like those, I think it should be legal in controlled environments where medical professionals can assist people and security guards can subdue people if necessary, but I don't necessarily think it should be legal just anywhere.
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I'm completely in favor of legalizing the use, possession, cultivation, manufacturing, distribution, and sale of all drugs. Just slap a surgeon general's warning on them, make sure stores aren't selling them to minors, and institute whatever tax the government decides. Aside from that, most drugs don't really need a great deal of regulation.

    I would make exceptions for drugs that make people exceptionally violent, like PCP. In cases like those, I think it should be legal in controlled environments where medical professionals can assist people and security guards can subdue people if necessary, but I don't necessarily think it should be legal just anywhere.
    Would have to put in about 1000% tax revenue to cover treatment costs and help offset economic and social damage.

  4. #64
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    I think it's important to discuss whether drug use will actually increase if drugs are legalized, because many of the opinions here seem to be assuming that will be the case.

    If we legalize drugs and then drug use increases, then we have failed to implement the right policies IMO. If we assume that the rate of drug use will remain about the same as it is now, then legalization would solve all the problems that have already been noted, without causing any other problems for individuals or society that don't already exist.

    Legalize should not mean glamorize. It should mean treat the drug problem as a medical problem, instead of a criminal problem. There should still be a strong focus on educating people about the dangers of drug use and addiction. But instead of a propaganda campaign full of lies and hyperbole like DARE and the DEA do, education should be honest and objective about the facts so that it maintains credibility - especially with kids. That's how to legalize drugs without having an influx of new addicts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius
    In order for something to be taxed effectively it still has to be controlled by a select group. It would still be illegal for you to grow it yourself or produce it yourself because that would be escaping the taxation process. This would be that instead of the war on drugs, you have a war on people escaping taxation... it would just shift to the battle to a different realm.
    Well anyone can grow their own tobacco and brew their own beer, hell you can even order everything you need online. But those industries are still "taxed effectively" don't you think? So why would you believe this could be a problem with other drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad
    In any case, reviewing the information has contributed to my reticence about advocating for legalization. The drug does seem so extremely addictive and the damage so surprisingly extensive that I am just not sure that we can simply allow it.
    To me, this sounds like the same non-sequitor that argues for any drug to be illegal in the first place. The whole idea that addictive and dangerous drugs should be illegal fails to recognize the nature of the problem as a medical one, not a criminal one. It's like trying to tighten a bolt by using a hammer. The law books are categorically not the right tool for addressing this problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold
    There will always be people who do insane things because they think that normalcy is dull, and an infringement of their rights/.
    So true!

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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    People don't kill each other over cigarettes. . . .

    To casually demolish your assertion:
    MURDER OVER CIGARETTES.; One Italian Dead, Another Wounded in Brooklyn Street Row.
    April 2, 1911, Sunday


    When Giuseppe Spizzano of 43 Sackett Street, Brooklyn, was charged in the Hamilton Street Station last evening with the killing of one man and the wounding of another, he told the Lieutenant that it was all due to a quarrel over a five-cent package of cigarettes.
    Argument over Cigarette leads to Murder
    Witnesses told police that the two men argued over the cigarette before Scheinkman allegedly attacked the victim with his fists and feet. The victimís name is being withheld pending notification of next of kin.
    Police: Argument over cigarettes leads to choke hold, then murder
    Tampa, Florida - Tampa police say a fight between roommates over cigarettes turned deadly Tuesday morning.
    Friends say latest murder victim killed over a cigarette
    Friends of a man who was killed following a confrontation along 118th Avenue Sunday morning say he was stabbed on the steps of a liquor store after refusing to give two men a cigarette.
    Youth Kills Boy, 4, Over Cigarettes, Police Say
    A 15-year-old youth shot a 4-year-old to death inside a home methamphetamine lab because the younger boy didnít get cigarettes fast enough, police said Monday.
    Briton murdered in Denmark 'over cigarette'
    A British man was stabbed to death in Copenhagen early this morning after an apparent argument over a cigarette.


    The victim, who has not been named, was knifed "many, many times" in a sudden fight, according to Danish police. The attack, which happened shortly before dawn, was witnessed by several onlookers and a 32-year-old Danish man was arrested nearby. He has been charged with murder.
    Boy jailed in row over cigarette
    The boy, who had been thrown out of the house, shouted and smashed windows before stabbing Mr Davies through the heart, Manchester Crown Court heard.
    Exclusive: 12 years for killer who strangled girlfriend with stockings over cigarette row
    A MAN who strangled his girlfriend with her stockings was jailed for at least 12 years yesterday.


    Mark Ferguson killed Elizabeth Hunter in bed after she accused him of smoking their last cigarette.
    The reason that we have so many crimes and murders involving this legal drug, is that it simply is not lethal enough.
    Last edited by Oftencold; 01-01-09 at 06:08 PM.

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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by creativedreams View Post
    Would have to put in about 1000% tax revenue to cover treatment costs and help offset economic and social damage.
    What makes you think that legalizing drugs will cause "economic and social damage"? That seems to be premised on the assumption that more people will use (and abuse) drugs if they are legal...an assumption for which I see absolutely no evidence. Gang-related crime will decline dramatically as there is no longer a need for turf wars. Random acts of robbery and burglary will decline dramatically as people no longer need to steal in order to finance their addictions. People could seek help for their problem more openly without being treated as criminals. And overdoses would become rare because actual businesses could guarantee the purity of their drugs. "Gateway drugs" would cease to be a gateway to anything, because people wouldn't have to rely on criminals to provide them.

    Etc, etc.

    Many drugs are bad themselves...but it's the war on drugs that causes most of the economic and social damage.
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    OK, want to compare the number of cigarette-related murders with the number of cocaine-related murders?

    I'm not talking about random isolated cases you googled. That is nothing compared to the tens of thousands of murders each year related to illegal drugs.
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    OK, want to compare the number of cigarette-related murders with the number of cocaine-related murders?

    I'm not talking about random isolated cases you googled. That is nothing compared to the tens of thousands of murders each year related to illegal drugs.
    Actually, my rather effective purpose was to demonstrate that you are making assertions (people don't murder over cigarettes,) that can be almost effortlessly refuted.

    I believe also, (and I'm not going to do the research for you,) that you might discover that over 50 years there have been more cigarette murders in America that Cocaine murders.

    By the way too, It took very a minimal effort to find the murders I did cite in devastating your contention. The results to the search were manifold.
    Last edited by Oftencold; 01-01-09 at 10:42 PM.

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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Actually, my rather effective purpose was to demonstrate that you are making assertions (people don't murder over cigarettes,) that can be almost effortlessly refuted.
    Fine, allow me to rephrase (i.e. idiot-proof) my statement: People don't murder over cigarettes in significant numbers. Care to refute that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold
    I believe also, (and I'm not going to do the research for you,) that you might discover that over 50 years there have been more cigarette murders in America that Cocaine murders.
    And I believe you know perfectly well that that's full of ****. I doubt I can even FIND statistics on the number of cigarette-related murders per year, because they're so unusual and isolated that no one probably bothers to even KEEP statistics on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold
    By the way too, It took very a minimal effort to find the murders I did cite in devastating your contention. The results to the search were manifold.
    Did you actually want to discuss the war on drugs, or did you just want to split hairs when you understood what I meant perfectly well?
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What makes you think that legalizing drugs will cause "economic and social damage"? That seems to be premised on the assumption that more people will use (and abuse) drugs if they are legal...an assumption for which I see absolutely no evidence. Gang-related crime will decline dramatically as there is no longer a need for turf wars. Random acts of robbery and burglary will decline dramatically as people no longer need to steal in order to finance their addictions. People could seek help for their problem more openly without being treated as criminals. And overdoses would become rare because actual businesses could guarantee the purity of their drugs. "Gateway drugs" would cease to be a gateway to anything, because people wouldn't have to rely on criminals to provide them.

    Etc, etc.

    Many drugs are bad themselves...but it's the war on drugs that causes most of the economic and social damage.
    drug use would spread like the plague through parental influence, advertising, etc. (common sense)

    studies show if you put an electical charge between a mouse and it's food and gradually increase the electrical charge for each feeding time...the mouse will reach a point where it will not go to obtain the food.

    replace that food with a drug, and the mouse will continue to go to obtain the drug until it dies.

    How this relates is that when a person runs out of money to get food they will not risk life in prison to obtain the food

    when a person runs out of money to get a drug they will risk life in prison to obtain the drug.

    If you can't grasp this then......well.......sorry

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