View Poll Results: Regarding your support for Oftencold's Rec. Drug Legalization Proposal:

Voters
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  • I support Oftencold's Rec. Drug Legalization Proposal

    3 13.04%
  • I do not support Oftencold's Rec. Drug Legalization Proposal

    14 60.87%
  • Oftencold's Rec. Drug Legalization Proposal is too harsh

    6 26.09%
  • Oftencold's Rec. Drug Legalization Proposal in to lenient

    3 13.04%
  • I am a drug dealer

    2 8.70%
  • I am a drug user

    3 13.04%
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Thread: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

  1. #51
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Meth cannot be made safe.

    But who would ever use meth, if they could have cocaine?

  2. #52
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Meth cannot be made safe.

    But who would ever use meth, if they could have cocaine?
    I think that Meth is cheaper. I've certainly known people who used cocaine of one type or another. I couldn't see that it did much for them.

  3. #53
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    I think that Meth is cheaper. I've certainly known people who used cocaine of one type or another. I couldn't see that it did much for them.
    Well, yeah. It's cheaper, mainly because it can be made from common, legal chemicals, while cocaine must be made from illegal plants that only grow in tropical places.

    Besides, if the bulk of an item's price is taxes, what is to stop cocaine from being cheaper than meth? Assuming, of course, that with cheap cocaine available anyone would choose meth, even if it were that little bit cheaper.

  4. #54
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Well, yeah. It's cheaper, mainly because it can be made from common, legal chemicals, while cocaine must be made from illegal plants that only grow in tropical places.

    Besides, if the bulk of an item's price is taxes, what is to stop cocaine from being cheaper than meth? Assuming, of course, that with cheap cocaine available anyone would choose meth, even if it were that little bit cheaper.
    Oh, of course people would choose to use Meth because it is racier, morre dangerous, and to some, therefore more sexy.

    People pierce there tongues for cryin' out loud -- somebody will do almost anything.

    There will always be people who do insane things because they think that normalcy is dull, and an infringement of their rights/.

  5. #55
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Meth cannot be made safe.

    But who would ever use meth, if they could have cocaine?
    There are similar drugs currently available via prescription such as adderall.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  6. #56
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Addictive drugs are bad for the brain, we know that, but they are highly concentrated versions and forms of simple plants, taken by people who seek for some reason excessive amounts of dopamine, probably because their dopamine supply has been exhausted from the rigors and overwork of working for someone else, and not benefitting, only sustaining. This can wreak havoc on the mind, leading unusual or un logical decisions. they are abusing the coca and poppy plants, extracting them, and using them for a quick rush. if these plants were allowed to grow, they would not be used in such an excessive and wild manner,
    and the great people of the village would become accustomed, and experienced with them, probably chewing them for a buzz, but not mainlining it for there is no reason for mainlining the drug, when it grows in abundance. People have personal choice, influenced by their peers, friends and family, on whether to use, or whether to be responsible with it. also forced taxation for anything without consent is a violation of the laws of the republic of the united states (republic, for which it stands which means my rights and laws are written once, and cannot be voted away by some ranting cattle majority.

  7. #57
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Your thorough examination really does show here. I have, in the past, been for the legalization of all drugs. However, assertion 4 from your points has made me reconsider. If your assertion is true (as far as "permanently alter the user's personality whether they are using or not in a way that is provably dangerous to the public"), then I may end up changing my mind.

    However, let me offer this anecdote: A couple that are very close to me ended up becoming addicted to Meth. The guy was very charming and had a very good job where he was fast working his way up. The gal was an RN. They had a nice middle class house.

    Eventually, he lost his job and started to manufacture and sell the drug. He became what most would call a dangerous criminal. There were guns and supposedly some violence, though I do not know the details on this, as I had been dissassociating from them. Even from a distance, the things I was hearing scared me. Well, finally he was arrested and charged with several things, I don't recall what all. He went to prison and his gal was rumored to have taken over the business.

    When the police came for her, the neighbors all stood out on their front lawns in their nice cul-de-sac and cheered. However, the police had entered her home without probable cause, without a warrant and without her permission. So, it ended up that no charge they could bring against her would stick.

    Fortunately (or unfortunately from another perspective) her daughter's juvenile dilinquency (big suprise there, eh?) made it possible for a judge to require the mother to undergo drug testing, and the judge then ordered inpatient rehab. This was possible under a state law that gives a juvenile judge certain powers over the adult responsible for a dilinquent minor.

    Amazingly, the rehab worked. Meanwhile the boyfriend, now in prison, was also involved in "Recovery".

    It has now been many years since his release. He is very successful as a high level manager in his career. She has regained her nursing license and another advanced degree in nursing, and is well respected wherever she works. They were both extremely addicted to Meth. If you met them, they would appear to you in every way as if they were always the way they are now. Nearly everyone likes them.

    I am telling this story partly in contemplation in considering your claim that Meth causes irreversible damage to the personalities of people which causes those people to be permanently dangerous to society. Are there studies which back this up? Perhaps you have an anecdote which contradicts this one I have told. Or did you mean to say that these people are a danger as long as the addictive behavior is active?
    I am glad that this anecdotal couple were able to overcome that. Hopefully there will be more advances in treatment, but I have known some crack and meth addicts who weren't so lucky, it's such a rotten life, the thing that gets me though is how dangerous those drugs make it for innocents in society.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  8. #58
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Why do you do this? You should know by know that I will probably overwhelm you with sources. Oh well.
    I don't mind at all. However, these sources really say nothing about the rate of damage, per se. The most useful information in them whereby rate of brain function decay could be speculated about would be the information on the average length of time the users had been using (10 years) and how much they used, on average. The 'ten years' information was new for me, so thank you for that. As for the heaviness of the use, I can't imagine that the self-reporting with regard to that is very accurate. I just doubt the users themselves know with any degree of accuracy. Nevertheless information is better than no information, in my view as long as we're thorough in our skepticism.

    In any case, reviewing the information has contributed to my reticence about advocating for legalization. The drug does seem so extremely addictive and the damage so surprisingly extensive that I am just not sure that we can simply allow it.

    In my view, the people starting up the use of it would have to be either ignorant or insane. In either case, perhaps we should protect them from themselves. In a later post you mention anecdotal reasons why people do start up. My experience has been different than yours. The people I know (and I do know considerably more than just the people whose story I told) started using either because of self-medicating for depression or because they just wanted to have a little fun and thought it would be safe to use every once in a while.

    Alot of people don't know or don't believe the stories about how addictive it is. They see people having a great time, and by the time those people have sunk into oblivion, they are out of sight of the normal social venues. Many people seem not to have the skills or the know how concerning how to evaluate scientific and medical claims; and when they've never seen it first hand, it is simply not credible (to them). I class these people as ignorant, and not necessarily wilfully so. I feel sorry for them mostly.

  9. #59
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by therealrelation View Post
    . . .if these plants were allowed to grow, they would not be used in such an excessive and wild manner,
    and the great people of the village would become accustomed, and experienced with them, probably chewing them for a buzz, but not mainlining it for there is no reason for mainlining the drug, when it grows in abundance. People have personal choice, influenced by their peers, friends and family, . . .
    So, if these plants were allowed to grow freely, they would not be abused. Much the same way that tobacco, hops, yeast, and grapes are not abused.




    (This is sarcasm.)

  10. #60
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    So, if these plants were allowed to grow freely, they would not be abused. Much the same way that tobacco, hops, yeast, and grapes are not abused.

    (This is sarcasm.)
    People don't kill each other over cigarettes. 7-11 employees and Speedway employees don't have turf wars to determine who gets to sell alcohol in each city.

    If drugs were legalized, the black market would be eliminated and the vast majority of drug-related crimes would vanish overnight.
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