View Poll Results: Regarding your support for Oftencold's Rec. Drug Legalization Proposal:

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  • I support Oftencold's Rec. Drug Legalization Proposal

    3 13.04%
  • I do not support Oftencold's Rec. Drug Legalization Proposal

    14 60.87%
  • Oftencold's Rec. Drug Legalization Proposal is too harsh

    6 26.09%
  • Oftencold's Rec. Drug Legalization Proposal in to lenient

    3 13.04%
  • I am a drug dealer

    2 8.70%
  • I am a drug user

    3 13.04%
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Thread: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

  1. #41
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    The only drug I would be in favor of removing demon horns from is pot.

    To be honest, there is nothing about it that is any worse than alcohol. In fact, it is safer than alcohol in pretty much every aspect.

    Either way though, it's not a big deal to me. I don't partake in any recreational drugs and rarely drink more than a beer or 2 in 1 sitting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Don't apologize to me over that silly ****. I could care less if I can see the dust or not.
    Now apologize for apologizing!

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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    No , I don't have to make things up, I have an internal data base slightly more massive than Jupiter. It is known to slightly warp space around it, and may account for the halo effect that some observers have commented upon after being in my presence as light is subtly shifted by the gravitation field of all that information.

    There has been some concern expressed that if I continue to amass knowledge at the current rate, spontaneous fusion might occur in a few decades.

    The tobacco tax is obviously vastly important top the Federal Government, as all taxes are. (It is an effect similar to that attributed to dragons in fiction, who are said to know if a single coin is misplaced in their gigantic hoards.)

    The cause of the moment is funding SCHIP with increased tobacco tax revenues. Soon it may be seen as an heartless insensitivity to children to not smoke, chew or dip.

    I have a remedial reading assignment for you below, and I stress that I may quiz you later.
    Oh, puhleez. What are you trying to convince me of, exactly, (now that you've clearly been caught saying something really stupid)? That you didn't argue that an end to the tobacco tax would cause the federal gov't to spiral into a crisis (the dragon's hoard argument)? That what you really meant was that it would cause people to feel like they should smoke in order to fund SCHIP (which is actually more inane than your original assertion)?

    Please, say something coherent, don't jump around with attempts to replace statements you can't defend with new statements you can't defend. Stupid on top of stupid doesn't make you look intelligent or even clever. There is really nothing I find more irritating.

  3. #43
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I did quite a bit of thinking on this over the years and think this would work better, but it is only an opinion.
    1) Legalization of marijuana, can be sold legally in stores to anyone over 18, but must have a tax stamp similar to tobacco. Any tax evasion laws pertaining to tobacco shall apply to marijuana. Law enforcement can apply O.W.I. laws to those operating under the influence of marijuana or other intoxicants.
    2) Restructuring of drug education in schools focused more on consequences than lecture, consequences shall be deemed as physical, emotional, relationships, and financial.
    3) Hard drugs may be used, to an extent, but in settings that are controlled, let addictive medicine specialists administer the drugs in clinics, and usage shall be legal only in clinical settings, entertainment may be provided, and fees shall be charged at the physician's discretion.
    4) Certain drugs such as Meth, PCP, and Crack shall remain illegal simply because they can permanently alter the user's personality whether they are using or not in a way that is provably dangerous to the public, this could be the standard for determining legality of any drug and it's category of legal use. LSD is a debateable class, and may be determined by individual states.
    Your thorough examination really does show here. I have, in the past, been for the legalization of all drugs. However, assertion 4 from your points has made me reconsider. If your assertion is true (as far as "permanently alter the user's personality whether they are using or not in a way that is provably dangerous to the public"), then I may end up changing my mind.

    However, let me offer this anecdote: A couple that are very close to me ended up becoming addicted to Meth. The guy was very charming and had a very good job where he was fast working his way up. The gal was an RN. They had a nice middle class house.

    Eventually, he lost his job and started to manufacture and sell the drug. He became what most would call a dangerous criminal. There were guns and supposedly some violence, though I do not know the details on this, as I had been dissassociating from them. Even from a distance, the things I was hearing scared me. Well, finally he was arrested and charged with several things, I don't recall what all. He went to prison and his gal was rumored to have taken over the business.

    When the police came for her, the neighbors all stood out on their front lawns in their nice cul-de-sac and cheered. However, the police had entered her home without probable cause, without a warrant and without her permission. So, it ended up that no charge they could bring against her would stick.

    Fortunately (or unfortunately from another perspective) her daughter's juvenile dilinquency (big suprise there, eh?) made it possible for a judge to require the mother to undergo drug testing, and the judge then ordered inpatient rehab. This was possible under a state law that gives a juvenile judge certain powers over the adult responsible for a dilinquent minor.

    Amazingly, the rehab worked. Meanwhile the boyfriend, now in prison, was also involved in "Recovery".

    It has now been many years since his release. He is very successful as a high level manager in his career. She has regained her nursing license and another advanced degree in nursing, and is well respected wherever she works. They were both extremely addicted to Meth. If you met them, they would appear to you in every way as if they were always the way they are now. Nearly everyone likes them.

    I am telling this story partly in contemplation in considering your claim that Meth causes irreversible damage to the personalities of people which causes those people to be permanently dangerous to society. Are there studies which back this up? Perhaps you have an anecdote which contradicts this one I have told. Or did you mean to say that these people are a danger as long as the addictive behavior is active?

  4. #44
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Your thorough examination really does show here. I have, in the past, been for the legalization of all drugs. However, assertion 4 from your points has made me reconsider. If your assertion is true (as far as "permanently alter the user's personality whether they are using or not in a way that is provably dangerous to the public"), then I may end up changing my mind.

    However, let me offer this anecdote: A couple that are very close to me ended up becoming addicted to Meth. The guy was very charming and had a very good job where he was fast working his way up. The gal was an RN. They had a nice middle class house.

    Eventually, he lost his job and started to manufacture and sell the drug. He became what most would call a dangerous criminal. There were guns and supposedly some violence, though I do not know the details on this, as I had been dissassociating from them. Even from a distance, the things I was hearing scared me. Well, finally he was arrested and charged with several things, I don't recall what all. He went to prison and his gal was rumored to have taken over the business.

    When the police came for her, the neighbors all stood out on their front lawns in their nice cul-de-sac and cheered. However, the police had entered her home without probable cause, without a warrant and without her permission. So, it ended up that no charge they could bring against her would stick.

    Fortunately (or unfortunately from another perspective) her daughter's juvenile dilinquency (big suprise there, eh?) made it possible for a judge to require the mother to undergo drug testing, and the judge then ordered inpatient rehab. This was possible under a state law that gives a juvenile judge certain powers over the adult responsible for a dilinquent minor.

    Amazingly, the rehab worked. Meanwhile the boyfriend, now in prison, was also involved in "Recovery".

    It has now been many years since his release. He is very successful as a high level manager in his career. She has regained her nursing license and another advanced degree in nursing, and is well respected wherever she works. They were both extremely addicted to Meth. If you met them, they would appear to you in every way as if they were always the way they are now. Nearly everyone likes them.

    I am telling this story partly in contemplation in considering your claim that Meth causes irreversible damage to the personalities of people which causes those people to be permanently dangerous to society. Are there studies which back this up? Perhaps you have an anecdote which contradicts this one I have told. Or did you mean to say that these people are a danger as long as the addictive behavior is active?
    You might want to st in on some of my annual training about meth. The damage to the cerebral neurons are noted for being sever and irreversible.

    I'm also startled that anyone would be allowed to attain a nursing license with a history of Methamphetamine manufacture, but some States have strange laws I suppose.

    If this pair were users, they must not have been for very long or used very much.

  5. #45
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    You might want to st in on some of my annual training about meth. The damage to the cerebral neurons are noted for being sever and irreversible.

    I'm also startled that anyone would be allowed to attain a nursing license with a history of Methamphetamine manufacture, but some States have strange laws I suppose.

    If this pair were users, they must not have been for very long or used very much.
    Do you have any materials to back up your assertions? I've already read alot about the effects, and I know that it causes cognitive damage, and that they think that damage is probably permanent. But, the rate of increasing damage for heavy Meth users is not discussed.

    For the record, their use of the drug spanned 2+ years and during most of that time (once the addiction had become full blown) they were 'snorting' and smoking it during all of their waking hours.

    She has returned to being a productive member of society and is an asset to society in that capacity. Her competent work is well above average. Why wouldn't you want someone to be doing what they do well, to the benefit of all that they come in contact with?

  6. #46
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Do you have any materials to back up your assertions? I've already read alot about the effects, and I know that it causes cognitive damage, and that they think that damage is probably permanent. But, the rate of increasing damage for heavy Meth users is not discussed.

    For the record, their use of the drug spanned 2+ years and during most of that time (once the addiction had become full blown) they were 'snorting' and smoking it during all of their waking hours.

    She has returned to being a productive member of society and is an asset to society in that capacity. Her competent work is well above average. Why wouldn't you want someone to be doing what they do well, to the benefit of all that they come in contact with?
    Why do you do this? You should know by know that I will probably overwhelm you with sources. Oh well.




    'Methamphetamine abuse is a grave problem that can lead to serious health conditions including brain damage, memory loss, psychotic-like behavior, heart damage, hepatitis, and HIV transmission,' says Dr. Nora D. Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), National Institutes of Health, which funded the study.
    This Is Your Brain on Meth: A 'Forest Fire' of Damage
    "We expected some brain changes but didn't expect so much tissue to be destroyed."
    Structural Abnormalities in the Brains of Human Subjects Who Use Methamphetamine

  7. #47
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Why do you do this? You should know by know that I will probably overwhelm you with sources. Oh well.




    [/INDENT]
    A common argument is to legalize recreational drugs to ensure safety.

    Please tell us about safe meth.

  8. #48
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    It can't be made safe.

    Please understand, my thrust is that we are probably going to eventually legalize recreational drugs. I'd like to see the productive memebers society freed of responsibility for the natural selection that will follow. Legalization welded to your responsibility and mine for the users is untenable.

    Put succinctly, I want them to crawl away and die quickly rather than slowly at my expense.

    Again this assumes that these things will almost inevitably be legalized anyway.

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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    It can't be made safe.

    Please understand, my thrust is that we are probably going to eventually legalize recreational drugs. I'd like to see the productive memebers society freed of responsibility for the natural selection that will follow. Legalization welded to your responsibility and mine for the users is untenable.

    Put succinctly, I want them to crawl away and die quickly rather than slowly at my expense.

    Again this assumes that these things will almost inevitably be legalized anyway.
    Why do people turn to meth? What are some strong commonalities between meth users?

  10. #50
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    Re: A Proposal for Legalizing all Recreational Drugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Why do people turn to meth? What are some strong commonalities between meth users?
    You know, I'm not sure.

    Most druggies I've known started with the idea that they were wiser, smarter and luckier than anyone else who had ever lived, and that rules existed strictly to keep them from having a good time.

    I attribute much of this to the current culture that assumes that people have a right to happiness -- not to its pursuit, but to its actuality.

    Now I have known one or twp people who got involved with illegal drugs not so much for recreation, as to self-medicate.

    I also have known a few people who were introduced to drugs by dysfunctional parents, and thereby hooked.

    I can work up some sympathy for the last two groups.

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