View Poll Results: Another Great Depression?

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  • No, Obama will not follow in Hoover and FDR's steps

    1 12.50%
  • Yes, Obama will use this opportunity to expand Governement

    7 87.50%
  • I have no opionion because I have no courage of conviction

    0 0%
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Thread: Another Great Depression?

  1. #1
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    Another Great Depression?

    Another Great Depression?

    With both Barack Obama's supporters and the media looking forward to the new administration's policies being similar to President Franklin D. Roosevelt's policies during the 1930s depression, it may be useful to look at just what those policies were and-- more important-- what their consequences were.

    The prevailing view in many quarters is that the stock market crash of 1929 was a failure of the free market that led to massive unemployment in the 1930s-- and that it was intervention of Roosevelt's New Deal policies that rescued the economy.

    It is such a good story that it seems a pity to spoil it with facts. Yet there is something to be said for not repeating the catastrophes of the past.

    Let's start at square one, with the stock market crash in October 1929. Was this what led to massive unemployment?

    Official government statistics suggest otherwise. So do new statistics on unemployment by two current scholars, Richard Vedder and Lowell Gallaway, in their book "Out of Work."

    The Vedder and Gallaway statistics allow us to follow unemployment month by month. They put the unemployment rate at 5 percent in November 1929, a month after the stock market crash. It hit 9 percent in December-- but then began a generally downward trend, subsiding to 6.3 percent in June 1930.

    That was when the Smoot-Hawley tariffs were passed, against the advice of economists across the country, who warned of dire consequences. Five months after the Smoot-Hawley tariffs, the unemployment rate hit double digits for the first time in the 1930s.

    This was more than a year after the stock market crash. Moreover, the unemployment rate rose to even higher levels under both Presidents Herbert Hoover and Franklin D. Roosevelt, both of whom intervened in the economy on an unprecedented scale.

    Before the Great Depression, it was not considered to be the business of the federal government to try to get the economy out of a depression. But the Smoot-Hawley tariff-- designed to save American jobs by restricting imports-- was one of Hoover's interventions, followed by even bigger interventions by FDR.

    The rise in unemployment after the stock market crash of 1929 was a blip on the screen compared to the soaring unemployment rates reached later, after a series of government interventions.

    Conservative Opinion Columns, Issues, Political Debate, Coulter, Sowell, Barone, Hewitt: Townhall.com ... depression

    Mr.President: History repeats itself....

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    Re: Another Great Depression?

    I had a conversation with a construction worker (very smart one) about four years ago who was telling me that, in eight years, he could see an extremely bad depression comming. He explained several examples of things that are going to fall into place to make this depression even worse than the last. I kind of blew it off at first and forgot about the conversation. As time went on I started to notice everything he said was right on the money! (No Pun Intended!)

    If things keep happening to show he's correct we will hit a depression far greater than the last!
    Last edited by creativedreams; 12-27-08 at 09:28 AM.

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    Re: Another Great Depression?

    In this day and age its difficult to see that any depression like the one in the 1930s can happen, but many horrible scenarios can play out. We are certainly in stagnation and have been for a decade at least, especially intellectually and conservatively. Our views on the world is stuck in the past and new ways of thinking about our society and economy is not emerging, creating a situation of desperation since our potential is so much greater than our accomplishment. This situation of stagnation and desperation can last for decades all until we shake of ourself traditions and find new ways of looking at our society especially and as a result also the economy which in all cases to get out of stagnation/desperation will have to be planned, long term and sustainable(stip away the speculation ad gambling parts and we are almost there). Without a sustainable growing economy we will never reach the next level of human development, which at the moment only the west have a possibility of breaking into, and the most likely scenario is that China with their new ways of looking at things and doing things will surpass our society(in say 20 years) and that ours will only get more stagnant/desperate as a result and eventually result in a long row of the type of situations we have today with Iraq and the financial crisis. Unless we change our ways we will keep stepping wrong, unless we have some kind of revolution we will not reach the next step in human and social revolution in the west. But is this depression? I dont know, I dont think so.. My hopes right now lay in the hands of the European Union for Europe as a revolutionary force that can carry Europe at least into the next step of social and human evolution, but the process is slow. For America there needs to be some sort of revolution in the way of thinking, either complete reform through political and governmental reform or as a result of some kind of civil war where the liberal forces win over the conservative forces.

    But all this and a lot more is just my personal view on this, and only a tiny summary of a whole lot of relevant stuff. In the end, WE MUST THINK DIFFERENTLY.
    Last edited by Maximus Zeebra; 12-27-08 at 06:12 PM.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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    Re: Another Great Depression?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    In this day and age its difficult to see that any depression like the one in the 1930s can happen, but many horrible scenarios can play out. We are certainly in stagnation and have been for a decade at least, especially intellectually and conservatively. Our views on the world is stuck in the past and new ways of thinking about our society and economy is not emerging, creating a situation of desperation since our potential is so much greater than our accomplishment. This situation of stagnation and desperation can last for decades all until we shake of ourself traditions and find new ways of looking at our society especially and as a result also the economy which in all cases to get out of stagnation/desperation will have to be planned, long term and sustainable(stip away the speculation ad gambling parts and we are almost there). Without a sustainable growing economy we will never reach the next level of human development, which at the moment only the west have a possibility of breaking into, and the most likely scenario is that China with their new ways of looking at things and doing things will surpass our society(in say 20 years) and that ours will only get more stagnant/desperate as a result and eventually result in a long row of the type of situations we have today with Iraq and the financial crisis. Unless we change our ways we will keep stepping wrong, unless we have some kind of revolution we will not reach the next step in human and social revolution in the west. But is this depression? I dont know, I dont think so.. My hopes right now lay in the hands of the European Union for Europe as a revolutionary force that can carry Europe at least into the next step of social and human evolution, but the process is slow. For America there needs to be some sort of revolution in the way of thinking, either complete reform through political and governmental reform or as a result of some kind of civil war where the liberal forces win over the conservative forces.

    But all this and a lot more is just my personal view on this, and only a tiny summary of a whole lot of relevant stuff. In the end, WE MUST THINK DIFFERENTLY.
    I think you have this ass backwards. We (correction: They) ARE thinking differently, and there is your problem. We need to go back to the ways of our founding fathers...get government the fvck out of our way, live by our constitution, GET RID OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE (which goes back to living according to our constitution), and go back to being a Constitutional Republic instead of the Democracy they're trying to turn us into. Democracy ALWAYS fails. Government has become corrupt as hell and WE need to change THEIR way of thinking.

  5. #5
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    Re: Another Great Depression?

    Quote Originally Posted by Invayne View Post
    I think you have this ass backwards. We (correction: They) ARE thinking differently, and there is your problem. We need to go back to the ways of our founding fathers...get government the fvck out of our way, live by our constitution, GET RID OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE (which goes back to living according to our constitution), and go back to being a Constitutional Republic instead of the Democracy they're trying to turn us into. Democracy ALWAYS fails. Government has become corrupt as hell and WE need to change THEIR way of thinking.
    Wow, you are the first guy other than me I have heard that from. I completely agree with you 100% about your views on democracy. The way it is it will always end up like a joke and a corrupted failure. The problem is that people are too stuck in a singular traditional way of thinking, they all think democracy for example is excellent and empowers the individual, people who are above average intelligence know that that is completely flawed unless you live in a country with say 4 or 5 people in it.

    By traditional and conservative thinking and cycle of getting stuck in a certain way of thinking I mean that most people think in term of the present and the past and look at the best solutions there rather than theory and optimal alternatives. In this day and age it is a HUGE problem that people accept the reality as it is.

    As for todays conservatives they are conservatives of the ways of today, not the far back past. As for liberals I mean people who have the ability to "think out of the box" or "alternatively", "abstract", "theoretically", "focus on optimals rather than reality", "focus on how things should be rather than accept how they are" and so fourth.
    Last edited by Maximus Zeebra; 12-27-08 at 09:18 PM.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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    Re: Another Great Depression?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Wow, you are the first guy other than me I have heard that from. I completely agree with you 100% about your views on democracy. The way it is it will always end up like a joke and a corrupted failure. The problem is that people are too stuck in a singular traditional way of thinking, they all think democracy for example is excellent and empowers the individual, people who are above average intelligence know that that is completely flawed unless you live in a country with say 4 or 5 people in it.

    By traditional and conservative thinking and cycle of getting stuck in a certain way of thinking I mean that most people think in term of the present and the past and look at the best solutions there rather than theory and optimal alternatives. In this day and age it is a HUGE problem that people accept the reality as it is.

    As for todays conservatives they are conservatives of the ways of today, not the far back past. As for liberals I mean people who have the ability to "think out of the box" or "alternatively", "abstract", "theoretically", "focus on optimals rather than reality", "focus on how things should be rather than accept how they are" and so fourth.
    Liberals (leftists) focus on how things should be in their opinion. In reality, it doesn't work, and has turned out deadly for the most part. All you have to do is read your history!

    Conservatives have not lost their sights on how things are supposed to be according to our Founding Fathers. The Republican Party damn sure has though, and any real conservative that continues to be a member of the GOP has his head up his ass. There is NO difference between the Republicans or the Democrats. If McCain was elected, he would have brought in totalitarianism just a bit slower than Obama.

    Oh, and I'm not a guy.

  7. #7
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    Re: Another Great Depression?

    Quote Originally Posted by Invayne View Post
    Liberals (leftists) focus on how things should be in their opinion. In reality, it doesn't work, and has turned out deadly for the most part. All you have to do is read your history!
    Yah yah, but the fact is that its better to find optimal solutions than to keep up the ways of the past or to blatantly think that what is the solution at the moment is in any way optimal or even good. Maybe leftist in the US are like you describe, leftists in Europe are "hardcore socialists". The great difference with the national governments of Europe and the European Union government for example is that the European government deals with introducing "best solution" policy, while governments are stuck in a "one side against the other" limbo situation like in the US, and don't achieve anything at all, and when they do achieve something its just as likely to be bad as good, often rooted in the wrong way of thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Invayne View Post
    Conservatives have not lost their sights on how things are supposed to be according to our Founding Fathers.
    Those are pretty good conservatives, a shame there aren't more of those and that conservatives nowadays in the US is something completely different altogether. i do however believe that being to attached to a past isn't good, but if the past ways are better than the current ways then there is something completely wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Invayne View Post
    The Republican Party damn sure has though, and any real conservative that continues to be a member of the GOP has his head up his ass.
    Well, the people in the US has an extraordinary interests with putting labels on everything. People in the US has redefined the terms left and right and liberal and conservatives to being nothing else than synonyms of each other rather than their true meaning. So in the political picture in the US today Republican=conservative=right, Democrat=liberal=left.. Thats just weird and wrong. Those who do not fit those two labels are the hope for a better future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Invayne View Post
    There is NO difference between the Republicans or the Democrats.
    Small differences exist. But put these two parties on a party scale from left to right in Europe with all European parties included then they seem rather singular in nature on slightly more on the right side of the spectrum than the other. Then take the global scale and it gets even more extreme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Invayne View Post
    If McCain was elected, he would have brought in totalitarianism just a bit slower than Obama.
    Is that a joke about old people?


    Quote Originally Posted by Invayne View Post
    Oh, and I'm not a guy.
    Certainly not, my mistake, I was just focused on other things.. Are you hot?
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  8. #8
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    Re: Another Great Depression?

    Quote Originally Posted by Invayne View Post
    Liberals (leftists) focus on how things should be in their opinion. In reality, it doesn't work, and has turned out deadly for the most part. All you have to do is read your history!

    Conservatives have not lost their sights on how things are supposed to be according to our Founding Fathers. The Republican Party damn sure has though, and any real conservative that continues to be a member of the GOP has his head up his ass. There is NO difference between the Republicans or the Democrats. If McCain was elected, he would have brought in totalitarianism just a bit slower than Obama.

    Oh, and I'm not a guy.
    No Zeebra, she is a smokin hot smarty! I agree completely with your "ass backwards" post two back. I am a Constitutionalist. For most of the nations life, the government was relatively small and did not get involved with people's lives. It ran the courts and the post office, collected some taxes, protected the borders... that's about it.

    Along comes FDR and this nation's government goes Godzilla huge on us and every President since then, and their special interest group money whores, has accepted this and even ENLARGED the government until we see the monster before us now. It's now like the Blob, or something... a joke.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

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    Re: Another Great Depression?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Are you hot?

    Just listen to what she is saying... of course she is smokin hot!
    How can a lady with those brains not get you all sweaty?
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  10. #10
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    Re: Another Great Depression?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Just listen to what she is saying... of course she is smokin hot!
    How can a lady with those brains not get you all sweaty?
    Certainly.. But I was referring to "in other ways"
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

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