View Poll Results: Are you a non-Christian and still celebrate Christmas?

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Thread: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

  1. #61
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Cristina View Post
    The Pagan religion was around hundreds of years before Christianity, so it is more than likely that December 25 was a Pagan holiday, not a Christian one.
    Any proof of that? Besides, the Christian religion is an evolution from the Jewish faith, so the religious tradition we draw on goes back far before the arrival of Christ.
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    As I've said before (I'm getting tired of writing that), Christ's birth is celebrated on the 25th, but that is not when it occurred. That date was chosen centuries after the fact, and correlates with pagan celebrations just as the other non-religious rituals of the holiday. I'll ask one more time. Do you have any evidence to support a date of the 25th? 'That's when Christmas is' is not evidence.
    The Annunciation to Mary is observed on the 25th of March. December 25 is exactly nine months later. Luke indicates that the Annunciation occurred in the sixth month. This has been interpretated two ways, but I have seen scholars who argue that this is the sixth month of the Jewish calendar - which falls in February/March. When the Annunciation to Mary is made, it indicates that she WILL conceive (in the future tense) implying that she had yet to conceive.
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  3. #63
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    Re: The easter bunny

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    In your mind.
    You hadn't sccessfully countered them.
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  4. #64
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    At the time shepherds would not have had their flock out in the field at night during the winter. This is the only clue that the Bible gives as to the time of year, and it points to spring or summer.
    That's not entirely true. As I pointed out in a previous thread on this same topic the bible states Jesus was conceived when Elizabeth was in her 6 months of pregnancy with John the Baptist. So by finding out when John the Baptist was born you can find when Jesus was.

    Here is what I said previously...
    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    John's father, Zacharias, was a priest serving in the Jerusalem temple during the course of Abijah [Luke 1:5] and it was during this time of temple service that Zacharias learned that his wife Elizabeth would have a child and after his service he traveled home and conceived John [Luke 1:8-13;22-24]. The course Abijah is the 8th course of the temple which starts the second sabbath of the third month, Sivan (May-June) [Chr 24:7-18]. So if Zacharias did indeed return home right after this service [Luke 1:23] then John was most likely conceived early July, nine months later John would have been born in March. Adding another six months, as Mary was 3 months pregnant at John's birth [Luke 1:26], Jesus would have been born in September.
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  5. #65
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The Annunciation to Mary is observed on the 25th of March. December 25 is exactly nine months later. Luke indicates that the Annunciation occurred in the sixth month. This has been interpretated two ways, but I have seen scholars who argue that this is the sixth month of the Jewish calendar - which falls in February/March. When the Annunciation to Mary is made, it indicates that she WILL conceive (in the future tense) implying that she had yet to conceive.
    We have already been through this. Luke states Elizabeth was "now in her sixth month" when the angel goes to speak to Mary.

    Luke 1
    24 And after these days Elisabeth his wife conceived; and she hid herself five months, saying,
    25 Thus hath the Lord done unto me in the days wherein he looked upon me, to take away my reproach among men.
    26 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
    27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

    .. Mary speak with the Angel...

    39 And Mary arose in these days and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Judah;
    40 and entered into the house of Zacharias and saluted Elisabeth.
    Last edited by Gibberish; 12-28-08 at 01:34 AM.
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  6. #66
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    idea Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    In most of the western world, Christmas is a national event. It is a cultural event for many and religous event for many. It has signifigance to our culture no matter what religion we belong to.

    We need to be sure that there is always careful line between Church and State.

    I am a christian but I called and spoke with three of my friends, one of them being a Moslem.


  7. #67
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    That's not entirely true. As I pointed out in a previous thread on this same topic the bible states Jesus was conceived when Elizabeth was in her 6 months of pregnancy with John the Baptist. So by finding out when John the Baptist was born you can find when Jesus was.

    Here is what I said previously...
    Actually, not all scholars agree on this point. There are also New Testament scholars who hold that the six months is a reference to the sixth month of the Jewish calendar, which would fall in February or March.

    Also, even if it is the sixth months of Elizabeth's pregnancy, we don't know exactly when the conception would have taken place because the angel uses the future tense without indication of a timeline. Thus, we don't know how much time passed between the Annunciation and actual impregnation.
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  8. #68
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Any proof of that? Besides, the Christian religion is an evolution from the Jewish faith, so the religious tradition we draw on goes back far before the arrival of Christ.
    What Jewish holiday falls on December 25?

    The date itself was adopted by the Christian church to help the transition of pagans by replacing the Winter Solstice, the Yule, the celebration of Saturnalia and the celebration of the Unconquered Sun.
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  9. #69
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Actually, not all scholars agree on this point. There are also New Testament scholars who hold that the six months is a reference to the sixth month of the Jewish calendar, which would fall in February or March.
    Of course they don't. Scholars disagree on every interpretation of the Bible. The context I am speaking of is backed though by the entire time line of Luke 1 being based upon Elizabeth's gestation of John. From conception, to 5 months, to 6 months, to 3 months later, to birth.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Also, even if it is the sixth months of Elizabeth's pregnancy, we don't know exactly when the conception would have taken place because the angel uses the future tense without indication of a timeline. Thus, we don't know how much time passed between the Annunciation and actual impregnation.
    We do know that in response to the angel saying she will concieve Mary stated "And Mary said, Behold, the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word." [Luke1:38].

    Also, Elizabeth greets Mary when she arrives and gives her blessings as if Mary is already pregnant.

    41 And it came to pass, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit;
    42 and she lifted up her voice with a loud cry, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
    43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come unto me?
    44 For behold, when the voice of thy salutation came into mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

    The above appears that Mary is already pregnant. Also the fact that Mary stays with Elizabeth until John's birth and the next mention of Mary in Luke 2 Mary is "great with child".
    Last edited by Gibberish; 12-28-08 at 02:05 AM.
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  10. #70
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    What Jewish holiday falls on December 25?

    The date itself was adopted by the Christian church to help the transition of pagans by replacing the Winter Solstice, the Yule, the celebration of Saturnalia and the celebration of the Unconquered Sun.
    This is a Christian holiday, but haven't you noticed that there is a Jewish holiday that falls real close to December 25?
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