View Poll Results: Are you a non-Christian and still celebrate Christmas?

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Thread: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

  1. #51
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    I can't speak for whatever version you have in you have in your hand, but every version I'm seeing on google has the word night in it
    Fair enough.. Different bibles varies slightly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    What makes you think that it is pure speculation? There is ample historical record of society during those times, and shepherds were not an insignificant portion of that society. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that would indicate anything contrary to what I said, or are you just trying to dismiss my evidence by calling it speculation?
    It is speculation, you have ABSOLUTELY no proof of your claims that shepherds ONLY took their flock out at night during springtime. Lets just say for the sake of it that the bible actually says it was at nighttime, that doesn't prove anything, and even if they ONLY did it at nighttime IN the spring with no exceptions, which I doubt and you still havet proven and cant because it wouldn't even guarantee that what they thought of as "spring" in Israel at that time was not in December or January. There are so many factors that make your claim PURE speculation that it certainly in no way is a fact, and even though if all pieces of what you said were true, it still wouldn't be proof that Jesus was born in what we in the Northern hemisphere in Europe and north America think of as spring. The roman year, months and seasons were quite different from our version that we have now. Spring came much earlier for example and they had fewer months. Aside from ALL these factors, the hebrew calendar at the time was also different than our calendar is today, and the hebrew calendar still is different, although not as widely practiced anymore. So yes, your CLAIM is PURE SPECULATION.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    I take offense to that accusation and would like you to support it. What did I leave out? What did I misquote?
    I don't want to get into this, just read the last few postings between us more thoroughly, and please also read my post more thoroughly in the future and please post all relevant stuff and don't cherry pick your quoting of MY posts to your misuse just for the sake of debate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    As I've said before (I'm getting tired of writing that), Christ's birth is celebrated on the 25th, but that is not when it occurred. That date was chosen centuries after the fact, and correlates with pagan celebrations just as the other non-religious rituals of the holiday. I'll ask one more time. Do you have any evidence to support a date of the 25th? 'That's when Christmas is' is not evidence.
    My bad, I had a dim memory of you actually saying that in a previous post.
    I don't have any evidence. No one has any evidence for a certain(or very likely) date of the birth of Jesus Christ, what do you expect, it was after all thousands of years ago, we don't even know the actual year.
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  2. #52
    Norville Rogers
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    As much as I want to sit here debating shepherd's habits two millennia ago, I see some light at the end of the tunnel, and I'm going to take it

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    My bad, I had a dim memory of you actually saying that in a previous post.
    I don't have any evidence. No one has any evidence for a certain(or very likely) date of the birth of Jesus Christ, what do you expect, it was after all thousands of years ago, we don't even know the actual year.
    This is really the crux of it. The Bible doesn't say when the birth occurred, either the year or the date or even a range. What historical analysis is possible is based entirely on a couple of passages in an inconsistent, vague book that has been altered countless times over the centuries. The only thing that can be said with certainty (well, 355/356 probability) is that December 25th is not the date of Jesus' birth. That date was chosen centuries after the fact, and if it isn't borrowing from existing pagan traditions then it's a hell of a coincidence.

    When even the year is impossible to determine I think that we can agree that the belief that Dec 25th is the exact day of Jesus' birth is pretty unreasonable, especially given that the calendar itself has changed several times since Christ's time

  3. #53
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    Re: The easter bunny

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    And where all of the arguments pointing to pagan origin were blown out of the snow.
    In your mind.

  4. #54
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    When even the year is impossible to determine I think that we can agree that the belief that Dec 25th is the exact day of Jesus' birth is pretty unreasonable, especially given that the calendar itself has changed several times since Christ's time
    I never actually once claimed that that was his date of birth. Just said its celebrated as such. You claiming it was in the spring was kind of annoying tho.
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  5. #55
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/1057861444-post34.html

    Well, the WIDE belief is the 25th of December. Thats why people celebrate CHRISTmas, in honor of Jesus. It may or may not be that Christians have stolen the themes of Christmas from somewhere else, but it CERTAINLY is a FACT that Christmas is a celebration in honor of Jesus CHRIST(mas).. It isnt a fact that he was born 25th of December, nor in spring, nor anytime. We simply do not know that, but the wide BELIEF and accepted date is 25th of December. Thats just incontestable.
    Not contesting that it's the widely accepted date of celebrating Christmas. Just saying we shouldn't confuse that it's a traditional date (Dec 25th) and not to be confused with the actual date of Jesus' birth (read the link I offered in one of my prior posts).

    As far as Dec 25th being a celebration in honor of Jesus it's not for most because now it's just another holiday designed to read "Twas the night before Christmas", watch "A Christmas Story" on tv, teach our children to believe in Santa Claus, sing carols, go see the lights and give gifts.

  6. #56
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by rsixing View Post
    As far as Dec 25th being a celebration in honor of Jesus it's not for most because now it's just another holiday designed to read "Twas the night before Christmas", watch "A Christmas Story" on tv, teach our children to believe in Santa Claus, sing carols, go see the lights and give gifts.
    I celebrate Christmas because its a family holiday, actually the main day of our celebration is the evening of 24th. We celebrate for several days and then everyone goes back to business at usual.
    That however doesn't mean that Christmas is not a celebration of the birth of Jesus and in his honor, because it is.
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  7. #57
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by kamino View Post
    /sigh
    This day may not be on the exact same day as a pegan holiday but is very close to it, the same way easter is. I understand that you may be offended by people saying that chirstmas is not a christian holiday, it is. But at the same time it is MY beleif (i.e. not fact, so you can't get upset at me with MY beleif, or maybe you can) that being a christian allows many people not to accept facts and make up there own history, the same way the Japanese don't teach WW2 in school or the germans don't teach about the Holocost. So for your own pleasure, if you are not to proud or to stuborn I present to you some fun reading.
    The use of December 25 goes back as far as AD 200 and is consistant with the fact that the Annunciation is celebrated exactly nine months before.

    All days are holy to God as He created all of them. To a Christian, a day is not pagan as pagans did not create them - God did. As Paul said, any day that is celebrated for God is accepted by Him.

    The symbols that have been brought up in other threads ALL come into play centuries or even more than a millennium after the December 25th date came into use.
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  8. #58
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Sure, why not? It's a secular holiday after all. There's nothing religious about Santa Claus and Christmas trees and giving presents and visiting with family and friends. The overwhelming majority of people, religious or not, celebrate Christmas secularly, any religious observation is done in addition to the secular holiday.

    A better question might be, how many Christians actually practice any kind of religious observance on Christmas? I bet it's a pretty low number.
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  9. #59
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    At the time shepherds would not have had their flock out in the field at night during the winter. This is the only clue that the Bible gives as to the time of year, and it points to spring or summer.
    Just because it is "winter-like" in North America, doesn't mean it is everywhere else. Heck, I was out on my bike in shorts and short sleeves today. Not the entire world is hiddling indoors cringing from ice and snow like much of the US.
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  10. #60
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    Re: Non Christians Celebrating Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    Yes, yes it does. Keeping the sheep out in the field at night is something that shepherds of that time would only do during the spring and summer
    Care to provide any confirmation of this? Remember, the weather in Israel in December is NOT the same as it is in the US. Much of December can be rather warm there by US standards.
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