View Poll Results: See OP: Have the US soldiers committed a crime?

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    2 5.71%
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    33 94.29%
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Thread: Is this a crime?

  1. #1
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Is this a crime?

    Scenario:
    -Present day
    -US soldiers in Iraq, fighting a group of insurgents.
    -US machinegun fire goes thru and then past the insurgents' position, striking a group of Iraqi civilians, killig several.

    Have the US soldiers committed a crime?

  2. #2
    R.I.P. Léo
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    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Scenario:
    -Present day
    -US soldiers in Iraq, fighting a group of insurgents.
    -US machinegun fire goes thru and then past the insurgents' position, striking a group of Iraqi civilians, killig several.

    Have the US soldiers committed a crime?
    a "crime" needs 2 parts:
    - the material act (killing the civilians)
    - the moral act (the willingness to do so)

    I don't think that the US soldier wanted to kill civilians, so it is not a "crime"

    But it's still a pretty bad accident, and depending on the circumstances (were they close? could he see them?) he could still be sued and condemned.

    We should see if a normal soldier, placed in the same circumstances, would have done the same.

  3. #3
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    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    a "crime" needs 2 parts:
    - the material act (killing the civilians)
    - the moral act (the willingness to do so)

    I don't think that the US soldier wanted to kill civilians, so it is not a "crime"

    But it's still a pretty bad accident, and depending on the circumstances (were they close? could he see them?) he could still be sued and condemned.

    We should see if a normal soldier, placed in the same circumstances, would have done the same.
    Pretty much agree in full.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  4. #4
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    Re: Is this a crime?

    It's a terrible accident, but the only crime would be trying the soldiers for an accident.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  5. #5
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    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    It's a terrible accident, but the only crime would be trying the soldiers for an accident.
    why? he's still responsible!

    when you kill someone while driving your car, it's not a "crime" but you still have killed someone and depending on the circumstances you could spend several years in jail

    => if he could not have seen the civilians, or if it was very unlikely to hit them, or if he was under enemy fire and was trying to protect himself and has not seen them, then OK he should not be sued

    but if it was obvious that there were civilians around the armed guy, he should not have opened fire
    Last edited by bub; 12-23-08 at 12:25 PM.

  6. #6
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    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    why? he's still responsible!

    when you kill someone while driving your car, it's not a "crime" but you still have killed someone and depending on the circumstances you could spend several years in jail
    Clarification:
    Combat is not legally comparable to civilian life.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 12-23-08 at 12:31 PM.

  7. #7
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    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Combat is not the same as civilian life.
    even Iraq is not a law-free zone

    Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  8. #8
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    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Ok... and...
    What part of the 4GC creates a legal liability for soldiers whose fire goes past/through the intended target and unintentionally kills civilians?
    Last edited by Goobieman; 12-23-08 at 12:39 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Ok... and...
    What part of the 4GC creates a legal liability for soldiers whose fire goes past its target and unintentionally kills civilians?
    article 3(a) says that civilians can't be killed

    you say that the US soldier didn't want to kill them, but if he killed them because he was not cautious enough, I think he is still guilty

    But it is impossible to guess, as you do not provide any detail

  10. #10
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    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Scenario:
    -Present day
    -US soldiers in Iraq, fighting a group of insurgents.
    -US machinegun fire goes thru and then past the insurgents' position, striking a group of Iraqi civilians, killig several.

    Have the US soldiers committed a crime?
    I would say no, it's a war zone and it wasn't the intent to kill civilians. It's an accident.

    Though I would say in general, we shouldn't be in Iraq in the first place.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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