View Poll Results: See OP: Have the US soldiers committed a crime?

Voters
35. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    2 5.71%
  • No

    33 94.29%
Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 103

Thread: Is this a crime?

  1. #41
    wʜɪтe яussɪaи Tashah's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    ישראל אמריקה
    Last Seen
    05-12-14 @ 02:00 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    18,379

    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamino View Post
    I see there are no military personell who have responed to this so... In the military we, like police officers are taught to be mindful of where we fire, including of those that are behind our target. If we fire at our target and hit an inocent civilian then thats our butt. There would be much ut rage if a police officer fired at a bank robber and hit some poor kid in the back ground, it is that same for us. It is illegal and we are held accountable for it.
    Like the OP, I think your statement is too broad. As I explained in my previous post, much depends on circumstance and variables.

    אשכנזי היהודי Белый Россию

  2. #42
    Sportbike Fanatic
    rsixing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    01-25-09 @ 10:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    2,327

    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Scenario:
    -Present day
    -US soldiers in Iraq, fighting a group of insurgents.
    -US machinegun fire goes thru and then past the insurgents' position, striking a group of Iraqi civilians, killig several.

    Have the US soldiers committed a crime?
    Depends of RoE.

  3. #43
    Sportbike Fanatic
    rsixing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    01-25-09 @ 10:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    2,327

    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by kamino View Post
    I see there are no military personell who have responed to this so... In the military we, like police officers are taught to be mindful of where we fire, including of those that are behind our target. If we fire at our target and hit an inocent civilian then thats our butt. There would be much ut rage if a police officer fired at a bank robber and hit some poor kid in the back ground, it is that same for us. It is illegal and we are held accountable for it.
    I think in the minds of some the Laws of War and RoE are immaterial if the ends seem to justify the means or as civilians they are ignorant to its existance for the Armed Forces.

  4. #44
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Goldsboro,PA
    Last Seen
    09-26-16 @ 09:59 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,420
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
    So what's your point? Soldiers can indiscriminately shoot civilians and that's fineAnd I never said that; I am saying that war is hell and is not a place for civilians to be strolling about., because this is war!?
    Yes and the horrible definition of war must be known by all - this does not seem to be the case.....There are areas in some American cities where a war zone exists..

    There wouldn't be peace whether Islam existed or not. If not them it's the Russians or the Germans or the Chinese or someone. Too many benefit from an external threat.
    .
    The Germans seem to be an-ex problem; the Chinese and Russians never were.
    Radical Islam is a problem...
    Total peace may be an impossibility as all groups have their criminal element..

  5. #45
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Timbuktu
    Last Seen
    01-30-12 @ 07:09 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    2,730

    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Scenario:
    -Present day
    -US soldiers in Iraq, fighting a group of insurgents.
    -US machinegun fire goes thru and then past the insurgents' position, striking a group of Iraqi civilians, killig several.

    Have the US soldiers committed a crime?
    Just collateral damadge.

  6. #46
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Whitewater, CO
    Last Seen
    04-05-16 @ 04:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,260
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    why? he's still responsible!

    when you kill someone while driving your car, it's not a "crime" but you still have killed someone and depending on the circumstances you could spend several years in jail

    => if he could not have seen the civilians, or if it was very unlikely to hit them, or if he was under enemy fire and was trying to protect himself and has not seen them, then OK he should not be sued

    but if it was obvious that there were civilians around the armed guy, he should not have opened fire

    Until you've spent time in combat you are not qualified to make such an assesment.

    When a terrorist is shooting at marine; that marine is 100% justified in firing back.

  7. #47
    Sportbike Fanatic
    rsixing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    01-25-09 @ 10:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    2,327

    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Until you've spent time in combat you are not qualified to make such an assesment.

    When a terrorist is shooting at marine; that marine is 100% justified in firing back.
    With all due respect to you Vader;

    These scenarios are so superficial it's not possible to make a just determination and I understand your retort is based on a response to someone you feel is not qualified to make an informed assessment of combat and the engagement of the enemy.

    May I state, as an add on to your response, that we who now serve and have served our nation faithfully will/would never engage the enemy in a manner which ignores the Laws of War nor the standing RoE nor purposefully endangers, injures or kills innocent/non-combatants. To do so would be a violation of the GC/HC, International Law, the UCMJ and is punishable under the MCM's.

    Does that mean we can/could at all times keep from endangering, injuring or killing the innocent. No! Does that mean there are some in the service of our Armed Forces who would violate the LoW and Roe? Absolutely. Just as there are cowards who serve and by their inactions cause the direct death of their comrades in arms. But for the most part our men and women who fight will not purposefully murder, maim or destroy the innocent. That is the purview of terrorists.

  8. #48
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Whitewater, CO
    Last Seen
    04-05-16 @ 04:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,260
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by rsixing View Post
    With all due respect to you Vader;

    These scenarios are so superficial it's not possible to make a just determination and I understand your retort is based on a response to someone you feel is not qualified to make an informed assessment of combat and the engagement of the enemy.

    May I state, as an add on to your response, that we who now serve and have served our nation faithfully will/would never engage the enemy in a manner which ignores the Laws of War nor the standing RoE nor purposefully endangers, injures or kills innocent/non-combatants. To do so would be a violation of the GC/HC, International Law, the UCMJ and is punishable under the MCM's.

    Does that mean we can/could at all times keep from endangering, injuring or killing the innocent. No! Does that mean there are some in the service of our Armed Forces who would violate the LoW and Roe? Absolutely. Just as there are cowards who serve and by their inactions cause the direct death of their comrades in arms. But for the most part our men and women who fight will not purposefully murder, maim or destroy the innocent. That is the purview of terrorists.
    We do not set out to kill innocent people. We are there to do a job. Sometimes in the course of combat a terrorist will carry out an attack when civilians are present.

    This is always unfortunate and it is a horrifying situation to be in.

    There is a choice that every soldier must make when he or she is faced with the task of taking down a terrorist.

    That choice is ... return fire or get killed. This is a choice that plagues good men and women in combat. I am sorry for those unlucky enough to get caught in the middle.

    I would choose to live. I would fire on the terrorist in hopes of saving my life and the lives of everybody else concerned.

    In terms of the USMC and the LOW, returning fire on those who attack us is an internationally accepted practice.

    In combat, we often do not have the time or manpower to sweep a given area for civilians while engaging the enemy.

    When civilians get injured as a result of a fire fight it is tragic. Though I think most people will run away when a gun fight breaks out. Those who refuse to do so are placing themselves in jeopardy.

    These kinds of casulaties are not the result of a failure to obey the rules of engagement. There are an unfortunate side effect of a war.

    Terrorist often choose to engage coalition forces when civilians are present because they like using civilians as shields.

    The resulting fall out is often used by islam-o-nazi propagandists to further fan the flames of hate... despite the fact that the situation was created by the terrorists and those who order the attacks but lack the balls to carry them out.

    I would like to say that I appreciate the kindness and respect you showed in addressing this issue. It means a lot to me that some people appreciate the sacrifice our armed forces make for us each and every day.

  9. #49
    Professor
    shiznit770's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Naperville, IL
    Last Seen
    07-08-10 @ 05:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,393

    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Until you've spent time in combat you are not qualified to make such an assesment.

    When a terrorist is shooting at marine; that marine is 100% justified in firing back.
    He said insurgents, not terrorists.

  10. #50
    Professor
    shiznit770's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Naperville, IL
    Last Seen
    07-08-10 @ 05:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,393

    Re: Is this a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    We do not set out to kill innocent people. We are there to do a job. Sometimes in the course of combat a terrorist will carry out an attack when civilians are present.

    ...

    I would choose to live. I would fire on the terrorist in hopes of saving my life and the lives of everybody else concerned.
    Would you fire if there was a slim chance of killing the insurgent and a high chance of killing civilians? Where do you draw the line between doing your job (ensure the stability of the Iraqi government and safety of its citizens) and saving yourself?

Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •