View Poll Results: Should birth records be open to adopted children

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Thread: Should birth records be available to adopted children?

  1. #31
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    Re: Should birth records be available to adopted children?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Ohhh, not the, "if you don't want kids, don't have sex" sermon.
    No, it's not that sermon. I'm fine with adoption. Is an explanation too much to ask. It's not like they are being forced to have any real responsibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    If this was such a perfect world we wouldn't need contraception or adoption to begin with. We could all click our heels together and wish our perfect dream life to correct its course when it takes the wrong fork in the road. However....
    Listen, I'm not the one advocating a fantasy life for anyone. I'm not pining for a perfect world.


    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    That would certainly help to erode the "anonymous" status, doncha think?
    What's the need for anonymity 18 years after the fact?


    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Lots of people. Do you seriously believe this is such a black and white issue? Haven't you ever seen parents who, when you look at their innocent kids, make you think, "Those kids would be better off with someone else!"?
    A lot of people think they are ready for a child. But until you experience being a parent, you can't really say you are ready for all it entails. That doesn't mean that you can't handle it. It just means that things you didn't plan for can happen.

    I'm not against adoption. Yes, I've seen kids that may be better off elsewhere. What does that have to do with donors giving their offspring some answers?


    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    I would suggest that, with your obvious resentment towards your situation, it would not be a good idea to seek out your "donors", as you call them. But, then again, maybe it would be therapeutic.
    If I resented my situation, I would try to find them. You are right, it could be good, it could be bad. If it were bad I would just ignore them. I don't have any need to yell at them. I'm perfectly happy with the parents that raised me. I just don't think that parents should be sheilded from answering questions that their offspring may have. If nothing else, at least make them say they want nothing to do them.
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    Re: Should birth records be available to adopted children?

    Well, I disagree. I do not believe that children given up for adoption have the right to interrogate their biological parents for any reason. They could have been aborted; instead, they were carried to term and given to adoptive parents who desperately wanted children to raise. You resent that? You feel you have the right to answers? You don't. Sorry about that. You do not have the "right" to such interrogation, to such explanation. You were given life. Make the most of it instead of plotting how to wreak revenge on a desperate birth mother who faced her own worst nightmare, and managed to survive it.

    Adoptive children do not have the right to barge into the lives of their birth parents 18 years later and demand an explanation. They simply do not.

    Hatred and sense of selfish entitlement simply gives credence to those who would choose abortion over adoption to prevent their lives from being torn asunder by resentful, bitter children too immature and self-absorbed to appreciate the quandry suffered by those who chose to give them life rather than oblivion. Narcissism and a total lack of empathy will never give peace to either the child or the birth parent that the child so desperately wants to punish. It only enforces the reality that bearing a child, no matter what the circumstance, from an unplanned pregnancy will create a cloud of destruction over one's entire life unless that pregnancy is terminated.

    I'm pro-choice, but when the options faced are dire and more dire, then choice has been removed. A little gratitude toward one who has chosen to suffer the pain of pregnancy and childbirth to give one's offspring a chance would go a long way toward healing any emotional wounds. If it comes to the point that bearing a child means that one will have to face that child, have that child reappear in one's life and be forced to explain or defend that decision decades later, the will tip the scales in favor of abortion.

    You have been given life. You deserve nothing more, in my opinion.

  3. #33
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    Re: Should birth records be available to adopted children?

    People need to know about possible and genetic and birth problems. Will a person have MS, HIV, MD, Chrohns Disease, etc.

    In the past it was just word of mouth, but now it medical testing and is good info to have.

  4. #34
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    Re: Should birth records be available to adopted children?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Well, I disagree. I do not believe that children given up for adoption have the right to interrogate their biological parents for any reason. They could have been aborted; instead, they were carried to term and given to adoptive parents who desperately wanted children to raise. You resent that? You feel you have the right to answers? You don't. Sorry about that. You do not have the "right" to such interrogation, to such explanation. You were given life. Make the most of it instead of plotting how to wreak revenge on a desperate birth mother who faced her own worst nightmare, and managed to survive it.
    Why do you think I resent that? Because I call them donors? The titles "mother" and "father" are earned in my opinion. Anyone can be a sperm/egg donor. It takes something more to be a parent.

    Why do you think I want to "wreak revenge"?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Adoptive children do not have the right to barge into the lives of their birth parents 18 years later and demand an explanation. They simply do not.
    Well, they should have the right. It's not too much to ask. How is the donor put out by it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Hatred and sense of selfish entitlement simply gives credence to those who would choose abortion over adoption to prevent their lives from being torn asunder by resentful, bitter children too immature and self-absorbed to appreciate the quandry suffered by those who chose to give them life rather than oblivion. Narcissism and a total lack of empathy will never give peace to either the child or the birth parent that the child so desperately wants to punish. It only enforces the reality that bearing a child, no matter what the circumstance, from an unplanned pregnancy will create a cloud of destruction over one's entire life unless that pregnancy is terminated.
    Why do you think that children would be resentful and bitter? You've ignored my points in previous posts. Instead you've inaccurately focused on what you perceive to be my bitterness. Now you are throwing out cheap insults such as immature, resentful, bitter, self-absorbed, and narcissistic. Now why would you do that?

    Where do you get this narcissistic idea that the fruit of one's loins would create a "cloud of destruction over one's entire life"? It wouldn't. It's called a restraining order.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I'm pro-choice, but when the options faced are dire and more dire, then choice has been removed. A little gratitude toward one who has chosen to suffer the pain of pregnancy and childbirth to give one's offspring a chance would go a long way toward healing any emotional wounds. If it comes to the point that bearing a child means that one will have to face that child, have that child reappear in one's life and be forced to explain or defend that decision decades later, the will tip the scales in favor of abortion.
    I just don't believe that someone who couldn't consider what their actions might bring about in 9 months are going to consider what will happen in 18 years. People don't get abortions because of fears about what will happen in 18 years. They do it for a myriad of reasons. But if they did choose to abort because they couldn't face their past in 18 years, that's okay too. Aborted fetuses aren't bitter, resentful, self-absorbed, narcissistic, and don't bring about clouds of destruction.

    We don't have a people shortage on this planet. If I was aborted, I wouldn't be here to be upset about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    You have been given life. You deserve nothing more, in my opinion.
    And giving life to someone doesn't make them a parent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



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    Re: Should birth records be available to adopted children?

    I believe that if one has biological children somewhere in the world, one has a responsibility to them.
    It doesn't matter if the law says one doesn't. Blood matters.
    I think if one cannot see one's way clear to acknowledging one's biological children at any point in one's life, then one is better off not going through with the pregnancy. It's better.
    Adoption does not need to be "made easier and more attractive" to pregnant women so that there will be less abortions.
    There don't need to be less abortions.
    People need to understand that creating new people and sending them out into the world is a massive responsibility, one that cannot be abdicated, even if the law says otherwise.
    People who would deny their own blood don't need to have children.
    They should have abortions.
    Adoptive parents could then adopt one of the millions of children languishing in foster care, who need homes.

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    Re: Should birth records be available to adopted children?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Why do you think I resent that? Because I call them donors? The titles "mother" and "father" are earned in my opinion. Anyone can be a sperm/egg donor. It takes something more to be a parent.

    Why do you think I want to "wreak revenge"?
    Just the tone of your posts, which are so different from your normal, upbeat postings. You sound resentful when you say that adoptive children are entitled to an explanation and have a right to demand one. I could be wrong... in fact you are telling me I'm wrong, so I will accept my error... but that's just how you have repeatedly come across.

    Well, they should have the right. It's not too much to ask. How is the donor put out by it?
    We disagree here. I've already given several examples of how the birth mother could be devastated by it.

    Why do you think that children would be resentful and bitter? You've ignored my points in previous posts. Instead you've inaccurately focused on what you perceive to be my bitterness. Now you are throwing out cheap insults such as immature, resentful, bitter, self-absorbed, and narcissistic. Now why would you do that?
    I apologize. I wasn't referring to you, but the way my post was worded may have given that impression. I do, however, know some adopted folks who are very bitter, resentful, self-absorbed and narcissistic. I know others who are emotionally shattered because their parents "didn't want them." This is a tough situation on both sides, and there is no single answer that is right for everyone in this position.

    Where do you get this narcissistic idea that the fruit of one's loins would create a "cloud of destruction over one's entire life"? It wouldn't. It's called a restraining order.
    Well, if either side is feeling threatened enough that a restraining order is necessary, I'd say that has created a cloud of destruction... and I'd further suggest the emotional impact would be there for a lifetime.

    I just don't believe that someone who couldn't consider what their actions might bring about in 9 months are going to consider what will happen in 18 years. People don't get abortions because of fears about what will happen in 18 years. They do it for a myriad of reasons. But if they did choose to abort because they couldn't face their past in 18 years, that's okay too. Aborted fetuses aren't bitter, resentful, self-absorbed, narcissistic, and don't bring about clouds of destruction.

    We don't have a people shortage on this planet. If I was aborted, I wouldn't be here to be upset about it.
    True enough. I just don't think that we should make abortions more appealing that adoption, and removing the privacy restrictions will in some cases do just that.

    And giving life to someone doesn't make them a parent.
    That is absolutely true.

    Again I apologize if you thought my examples were directed at you personally. They certainly were not. They were just that... examples... of how such a forced meeting could go horribly wrong, and the emotional aftermath of it.

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    Re: Should birth records be available to adopted children?

    True enough. I just don't think that we should make abortions more appealing that adoption, and removing the privacy restrictions will in some cases do just that.
    Abortion and adoption are not equivalent options.
    it's not about one being "more appealing" than the other.
    One is an alternative to pregnancy. The other is an alternative to parenting.
    In one, a child is involved, and in the other, no child is involved.

    There is no reason for society to try to make adoption "more attractive", "more appealing", or "more convenient".

    There is nothing particularly attractive or appealing about bringing a new person into this world, flesh of one's flesh and blood of one's blood, and then abdicating all responsibility to that person and denying that you have a biological child. Denying that to the child's very face, refusing to acknowledge your own biological child should he or she ever find you.

    "Gift of life", my butt.

    If you'd never been born, you wouldn't care. You wouldn't even know.

    Last edited by 1069; 12-23-08 at 09:05 PM.

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    Re: Should birth records be available to adopted children?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    No, it's not that sermon. I'm fine with adoption. Is an explanation too much to ask.
    Come on. I've read too many of your posts to believe you really believe this. It truly sounds like you resent being put up for adoption and cannot accept that your mother took that action with what's best for you in her mind.

    As already stated, this is no simple issue. Think about how hard it must have been for your mom to part with you. Can you wrap your mind and emotions around that? I can't think of a harder decision to make.

    Sometimes not knowing is thee best answer. Not perfect. Just the best. I sincerely hope you can come to terms with this. I am not attacking you. I feel for you.
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    Re: Should birth records be available to adopted children?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Abortion and adoption are not equivalent options.
    it's not about one being "more appealing" than the other.
    One is an alternative to pregnancy. The other is an alternative to parenting.
    In one, a child is involved, and in the other, no child is involved.

    There is no reason for society to try to make adoption "more attractive", "more appealing", or "more convenient".

    There is nothing particularly attractive or appealing about bringing a new person into this world, flesh of one's flesh and blood of one's blood, and then abdicating all responsibility to that person and denying that you have a biological child. Denying that to the child's very face, refusing to acknowledge your own biological child should he or she ever find you.

    "Gift of life", my butt.

    If you'd never been born, you wouldn't care. You wouldn't even know.

    Giving a child up for adoption is not a choice I would ever make with an unwanted pregnancy. I'd opt for abortion.

    The thing is, I'm pro-choice... that means that I respect the choice to carry a child to term and give it up, if that is the choice the birth mother makes. It doesn't matter if she makes that choice because of religious convictions, personal beliefs, or her own moral compass. I support her choice. That's what pro-choice is all about.

    A birth mother giving up a child for adoption is promised anonomity, unless she chooses to waive that in the future. Revoking that promise decades down the line is unfair, and a violation of her privacy. Officially revoking anonomity altogether puts undue pressure, in my opinion, on a woman who desperately does not want to be confronted by a "strange" child in the future, but who also does not believe in abortion. A woman contemplating that decision should not be pressured to decide between either to bearing a child she does not want knowing that there's a good chance she'll be confronted by that child in the future, or opting for an abortion she does not want in order to prevent that confrontation from happening.

    BTW, I also believe that birth parents do not have the right to force a meeting with the children they gave up if those children do not want it.

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    Re: Should birth records be available to adopted children?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Just the tone of your posts, which are so different from your normal, upbeat postings. You sound resentful when you say that adoptive children are entitled to an explanation and have a right to demand one. I could be wrong... in fact you are telling me I'm wrong, so I will accept my error... but that's just how you have repeatedly come across.
    You haven't been around here very long. I have used this tone before. I just don't rag on the Bush administration anymore.

    I know several women who have given up kids because they don't want to stop partying. Now, I could buy how hard it is to give up their kid if they took steps to ensure they didn't have the same thing happen again. But they didn't. Instead they repeatedly get pregnant and give up their kids. If it were so heartbreaking for them, it wouldn't happen repeatedly. I don't buy their crocodile tears. Yes, the kids undoubtedly are better off with other people. But ultimately, these women run from responsibility at every chance. It's sickening. There are plenty of kids waiting to be adopted. They only add to the problem. It burns my ass that people want to protect their irresponsible ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    We disagree here. I've already given several examples of how the birth mother could be devastated by it.
    I think your rape example is the one with the most credence. But, it's not like these women forgot that they raped. You don't forget something like that. I don't mean to sound callous, but if they are still devastated by reminders of that 18 years later, they need professional help. The only way to overcome it is to face it head on. Avoiding it or ignoring it will not allow for healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I apologize. I wasn't referring to you, but the way my post was worded may have given that impression. I do, however, know some adopted folks who are very bitter, resentful, self-absorbed and narcissistic. I know others who are emotionally shattered because their parents "didn't want them." This is a tough situation on both sides, and there is no single answer that is right for everyone in this position.
    Thanks for the apology. I apologize for misinterpreting your comments. But of those people you speak of, do they have a legitimate gripe? Were they abused. Their lifegivers made a decision that impacted their entire life. I don't believe that a decision like that should be made without any feedback on how that turned out.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Well, if either side is feeling threatened enough that a restraining order is necessary, I'd say that has created a cloud of destruction... and I'd further suggest the emotional impact would be there for a lifetime.
    Or they could just be harrassing them for answers after they were told they weren't interested in talking. That isn't a cloud of destruction. I think the destruction scenario is not very common anyway. Life is serious. Your decisions have consequences. I don't believe people should be shielded from that.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    True enough. I just don't think that we should make abortions more appealing that adoption, and removing the privacy restrictions will in some cases do just that.
    I've already addressed this. People aren't going to think 18 years ahead. If they had that kind of planning in their life, they wouldn't be in the predicament that they are in. Obviously a rape victim (who rarely get pregnant) who wouldn't have an abortion normally isn't going to change their mind if they are going to live with a 9 month reminder of their trauma.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    That is absolutely true.

    Again I apologize if you thought my examples were directed at you personally. They certainly were not. They were just that... examples... of how such a forced meeting could go horribly wrong, and the emotional aftermath of it.
    It's all good. Emotionally distressing things happen all the time. I see no reason to insulate people from this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
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