View Poll Results: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

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  • Yes we will see them and they are justified.

    5 7.81%
  • Yes we will see them but they will not be justified.

    4 6.25%
  • No we will not see them but they would have been justified.

    21 32.81%
  • No we will not see them and they would not have been justified.

    34 53.13%
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Thread: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

  1. #1
    User MachuPicchu's Avatar
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    Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    Calls are getting more, not less, obvious in the public spectrum. So the question is, will we see prosecutions of public officials and are they justified?

    To me, it is not a left vs right issue. This isn't just about Bush/Cheney. It is an issue of the highest ethical implications. It is not about revenge, it is about justice. Our public leaders must be held responsible for criminal actions. We must set a precedent that politicians are not above the law, regardless of their motivations.

    It no longer is a fringe position to hold that we need to bring this to court and systematically determine if people committed war crimes. It is now a fringe position to ignore the overwhelming evidence that crimes very likely were committed.
    We live at a time when emotions and feelings count more than truth, and there is a vast ignorance of science.

    -James Lovelock

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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    We won't see any prosecutions. War crimes prosecutions are for countries that lose wars on their home turf, and they're nothing more than a means for victorious countries to install more pliable governments once they're ready to withdraw.

    Noone's going to win a war on American soil in the immediate future, and both Bush and Cheney are probably going to be dead in their graves before it ever happens.

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    User MachuPicchu's Avatar
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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    We won't see any prosecutions. War crimes prosecutions are for countries that lose wars on their home turf, and they're nothing more than a means for victorious countries to install more pliable governments once they're ready to withdraw.
    There is nothing inherent about war crime prosecutions that state they can only happen after a government is overturned.

    It just so happens that in the past, the only way to bring to light war crimes is by toppling the government who manipulates public opinion. That is no longer the case with the free flow of information due to the advent of the internet. The media still holds significant sway in terms of public opinion, but things can no longer be ignored as blogging and less prevalent journalism has a medium to inform the public.
    We live at a time when emotions and feelings count more than truth, and there is a vast ignorance of science.

    -James Lovelock

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    wʜɪтe яussɪaи Tashah's Avatar
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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?


    אשכנזי היהודי Белый Россию

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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by MachuPicchu View Post
    There is nothing inherent about war crime prosecutions that state they can only happen after a government is overturned.

    It just so happens that in the past, the only way to bring to light war crimes is by toppling the government who manipulates public opinion. That is no longer the case with the free flow of information due to the advent of the internet. The media still holds significant sway in terms of public opinion, but things can no longer be ignored as blogging and less prevalent journalism has a medium to inform the public.
    Your post suggests an unfamiliarity with the facts.

    Present your case without the typical piling on of the emotional, rhetorical useless BS that many zealots often do when trying to make their case, ok?

    If you please, (and if you can) just include the kind of charges you'd anticipate and the example of how you think Bushco might have been guilty.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    User MachuPicchu's Avatar
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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    Your post suggests an unfamiliarity with the facts.
    Really? This seems like an ignorant claim. Just because I didn't outline the details for you doesn't mean I'm not familiar with them. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lacking.


    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    Present your case without the typical piling on of the emotional, rhetorical useless BS that many zealots often do when trying to make their case, ok?
    Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and many within the Pentagon (to name a few) had sufficient evidence from the CIA to show that their justification for going to war was faulty. They manipulated and misconstrued the evidence and presented to the public information they knew to be highly suspect at best to bring our country to war.

    Fiasco is an excellent overview of what occurred. Vincent Bugliosi presents an excellent case for prosecution of Bush for murder. Although it is an extreme goal, it could easily be used for war crimes as well.

    Cheney has also admitted to authorizing water boarding. Water boarding is - by any conventional definition of the word - torture. We are signatories of the Geneva Convention which prohibits all forms of torture and under international law is considered a war crime. Therefore Cheney has admitted to authorizing warcrimes.


    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    If you please, (and if you can) just include the kind of charges you'd anticipate and the example of how you think Bushco might have been guilty.
    Violation of human rights under the Geneva Convention including, but not limited to torture and/or inhumane treatment (waterboarding), depriving a prisoner of war of a fair trial (GITMO), and unlawful deportation (Extraordinary rendition).

    These are not "might be guilty", these are things we've admitted to doing. These are things the rest of the world views as crimes. It's not a matter of if they've committed war crimes, it a matter of whether we as a country have the balls to pursuit justice. It's a matter of identifying who had a role, and who should be held accountable.
    Last edited by MachuPicchu; 12-20-08 at 04:46 PM.
    We live at a time when emotions and feelings count more than truth, and there is a vast ignorance of science.

    -James Lovelock

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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?


  8. #8
    User MachuPicchu's Avatar
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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    And let me be clear, if these people who I feel have committed crimes have actually NOT committed crimes then they deserve to have their names cleared in a comprehensive investigation. I believe this is something that both the left and the right can agree on. We need to uphold the law of our land. Unless there is an underlying reason why you would not want an investigation into such claims, it seems that both the left and the right should be actively pursuing the truth to ensure those in the government are upholding their sworn duties.
    We live at a time when emotions and feelings count more than truth, and there is a vast ignorance of science.

    -James Lovelock

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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    We won't see any prosecutions. War crimes prosecutions are for countries that lose wars on their home turf, and they're nothing more than a means for victorious countries to install more pliable governments once they're ready to withdraw.

    Noone's going to win a war on American soil in the immediate future, and both Bush and Cheney are probably going to be dead in their graves before it ever happens.
    Although your statement is more true than false, it is also un-American and irresponsible. If we don't hold our elected officials to the same standard we receive, then this country has lost its way. And if you think people shouldn't be held resoponsible for their actions, then you must think being an irresponsible adult is a good thing.

  10. #10
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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by MachuPicchu View Post
    Calls are getting more, not less, obvious in the public spectrum. So the question is, will we see prosecutions of public officials and are they justified?

    To me, it is not a left vs right issue. This isn't just about Bush/Cheney. It is an issue of the highest ethical implications. It is not about revenge, it is about justice. Our public leaders must be held responsible for criminal actions. We must set a precedent that politicians are not above the law, regardless of their motivations.

    It no longer is a fringe position to hold that we need to bring this to court and systematically determine if people committed war crimes. It is now a fringe position to ignore the overwhelming evidence that crimes very likely were committed.
    You are either lying or fooling yourself when you say this is not a right verses left/fringe issue.The only ones screaming war criminal are the die hard Bush bashers,the Cindy Sheehans,Code pink and other retards.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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