View Poll Results: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

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  • Yes we will see them and they are justified.

    5 7.81%
  • Yes we will see them but they will not be justified.

    4 6.25%
  • No we will not see them but they would have been justified.

    21 32.81%
  • No we will not see them and they would not have been justified.

    34 53.13%
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Thread: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

  1. #31
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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    The BO administration should throw Bush, Cheney, et al into prison and the next Republican administration should return the favor. No need farting around with trials; just jail them and be done with it.

    That's how most banana republics work and the good ole USA certainly fits that category now.

  2. #32
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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDavies View Post
    Of course they won't. They're too spineless to mount a serious campaign to get him in the dock. The best we can hope for is that Bush gets his war criminal ass gunned down on the street or shoed to death by angry Iraqis.
    I sort of feel the same way about snot nosed moon bat libs who post such hate towards the president.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I sort of feel the same way about snot nosed moon bat libs who post such hate towards the president.
    4. Don't be a jerk - This simply means what it sounds like.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/forum-...rum-rules.html (Forum Rules)

  4. #34
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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?


    calling for the death of the president is far past being a jerk. Grow up
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    calling for the death of the president is far past being a jerk. Grow up
    I don't think the President saw.

  6. #36
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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billo_Really View Post
    Although your statement is more true than false, it is also un-American and irresponsible. If we don't hold our elected officials to the same standard we receive, then this country has lost its way.
    Meh. The concept of "war crimes" was a farce when it was invented, and the first convictions and executions on the basis of "war crimes" were ex post facto. They are nothing more than an excuse for the winners of a war to execute the losers. Saddam Hussein would still be in power with full American support for his "crimes" if he had not threatened former President Bush's oil interests in Kuwait in 1991.

    Call me un-American if you wish; frankly, I don't put much stock in being an American anymore. I am still here only because my family is here and because no other country will have me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billo_Really View Post
    And if you think people shouldn't be held resoponsible for their actions, then you must think being an irresponsible adult is a good thing.
    The President of the United States is responsible only to the citizens of the United States. While I would happily argue that he has failed spectacularly in his duties to his people, his failures are no more spectacular than former President Carter's. Neither gentleman has failed his country badly enough to deserve the indignity of a show trial followed by a summary execution, or worse, the humiliation of a life sentence in a foreign prison.

  7. #37
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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Meh. The concept of "war crimes" was a farce when it was invented, and the first convictions and executions on the basis of "war crimes" were ex post facto. [b]They are nothing more than an excuse for the winners of a war to execute the losers.
    I disagree. A mechanism was and is needed to inhibit strife and warfare from morphing into genocide.

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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDavies View Post
    Of course they won't. They're too spineless to mount a serious campaign to get him in the dock. The best we can hope for is that Bush gets his war criminal ass gunned down on the street or shoed to death by angry Iraqis.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    The President of the United States is responsible only to the citizens of the United States.
    Our President, and every U.S. citizen, MUST follow international laws. I don't know where you hail from but, in this country we take our laws and international laws pretty seriously. Well, until stupid took office, that is.

    BushCo has trampled our constitution, gutted our environmental laws and regulations and abandoned our citizens in times of devastating disasters... Katrina! They all deserve to be in jail.

    I hope Obama will go after them but, politics may say "leave the old a-hole alone so that the next guy doesn't come after me". If he doesn't he will be basically promoting the idea that the President of the USA can run an illegal administration and live by Richard Nixon's words, "If the President does it... it's NOT illegal".

    Here's just a few links showing you that the rest of the world, and even some of our own, still believe in laws and justice and the idea of right and wrong. After he leaves office, the popular motto will change from "Drill baby, drill!" to "Burn baby, burn!"

    t r u t h o u t | US General Accuses Bush Administration of War Crimes

    Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba (now retired) served as the deputy commanding general for support for the Third Army for ten months in Kuwait during the early days of the Iraq occupation. In a statement released today, he bluntly accuses the Bush administration of war crimes and lays down a challenge for prosecution.

    In 2004, Taguba released a classified report detailing abuses committed at Abu Ghraib Prison. The "Taguba Report" (executive summary) urged Pentagon officials to follow up on its findings by enforcing adherence to the Geneva Conventions in interrogations.

    Taguba retired in January 2007, later alleging that Pentagon officials had ordered him to retire for being "overzealous" in his criticisms of the military.

    In light of ongoing Congressional investigations into so-called harsh interrogation techniques, and on the heels of Congressman Dennis Kucinich recently issuing articles of impeachment accusing President Bush of, among other offenses, authorizing torture, we present Taguba's latest statement for your consideration.

    The full Physicians for Human Rights report outlining the medical evidence of torture perpetrated by the United States can be read at their website.
    So much for that stupid idea that those in the military can speak out against the military's actions or the Commander In Chief's stupid orders!

    From: Could Bush Be Prosecuted for War Crimes? | | AlterNet

    "The United Nations charter has a provision which was agreed to by the United States formulated by the United States in fact, after World War II. Its says that from now on, no nation can use armed force without the permission of the U.N. Security Council. They can use force in connection with self-defense, but a country can't use force in anticipation of self-defense. Regarding Iraq, the last Security Council resolution essentially said, 'Look, send the weapons inspectors out to Iraq, have them come back and tell us what they've found -- then we'll figure out what we're going to do. The U.S. was impatient, and decided to invade Iraq -- which was all pre-arranged of course. So, the United States went to war, in violation of the charter."
    One country has already held hearings on this: Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission hears nine charges against Bush, Blair, Howard

    And stupid Bush already admitted his war crimes @ Bush confesses to war crimes

    Sep 11, 2006, 00:31

    George W. Bush's speech on September 6 amounted to a public confession to criminal violations of the 1996 War Crimes Act. He implicitly admitted authorizing disappearances, extrajudicial imprisonment, torture, transporting prisoners between countries and denying the International Committee of the Red Cross access to prisoners.

    These are all serious violations of the Geneva Conventions. The War Crimes Act makes grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions and all violations of Common Article 3 punishable by fines, imprisonment or, if death results to the victim, the death penalty.

    At the same time, Bush asked Congress to amend the War Crimes Act in order to retroactively protect him and other U.S. officials from prosecution for these crimes, and from civil lawsuits arising from them. He justified this on the basis that "our military and intelligence personnel involved in capturing and questioning terrorists could now be at risk of prosecution under the War Crimes Act . . . ," and insisted that “passing this legislation ought to be the top priority” for Congress between now and the election in November.
    News-Editorial

    The International Commission of Inquiry on Crimes Against Humanity Committed by the Bush Administration of the United States documents the evidence on wars of aggression, detention and torture, destruction of the global environment, sabotage of global health programs, and the abandonment of New Orleans. Dennis Brutus will screen testimony from the Commission, discuss the potential for a new round of war crimes in the event the Bush regime attacks Iran, and consider civil society resistance strategy and tactics.

    FINDINGS OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION OF INQUIRY ON CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY COMMITTED BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION OF THE UNITED STATES

    The Commission’s panel of jurists has reached a unanimous decision that George W. Bush and his administration have committed war crimes and crimes against humanity.

    We find the Bush Administration guilty of all five indictments presented for which we have received evidence: wars of aggression, torture and indefinite detention, global warming policies and actions, attacks on public health HIV/AIDS programs and reproductive rights, and preparation for and response to Hurricane Katrina.

    Each of these constitutes a shocking crime in itself, and taken together the full horrors are all the more unconscionable. It is also clear that this is an administration that demonstrates an utter disregard for truth and flagrantly lies about the reasons for its actions.

    In arriving at this decision the jurists were particularly alarmed by the degree to which the Bush Administration’s actions in all five indictments were informed by the extreme right. It was the politics and perspective of the extreme, often religious, right that appeared in most cases to provide the ideological framework for the Bush Administration within which the lives of the poor, people of color and frequently non-Christians, were devalued to the extent that their human rights were flagrantly violated. Thus, although the specific conduct differs among the indictments, the result is the same: human life was debased and devalued by gratuitous acts of violence, torture, narrow self interest, indifference, and disregard.
    Here is when our own Supreme cCourt told Bush and dickie that the Geneva Convention actually DID cover those "illegal combatants" Bush hid down in GitMo.
    The Geneva Convention `catch' - Los Angeles Times

    June 30, 2006

    THE SUPREME Court on Thursday dealt the Bush administration a stinging rebuke, declaring in Hamdan vs. Rumsfeld that military commissions for trying terrorist suspects violate both U.S. military law and the Geneva Convention.

    But the real blockbuster in the Hamdan decision is the court’s holding that Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convention applies to the conflict with Al Qaeda – a holding that makes high-ranking Bush administration officials potentially subject to prosecution under the federal War Crimes Act.

    ...as Yale law professor Jack Balkin concludes, it’s starting to look as if the Geneva Convention “is not so quaint after all.”
    Consortiumnews.com
    President Bush assured the American people that he “shared a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated.” Other administration officials pinned the blame on a “few bad apples” and dismissed the prison guards’ claim that they were told to “soften up” the detainees for interrogation.

    Now, a report by the Justice Department’s Inspector General reveals that months before those abuses at Abu Ghraib, nearly identical tactics were used against “war on terror” detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and at CIA prisons – and that FBI complaints about the tactics went up the chain of command back to Washington.

    FBI agents at Guantanamo even opened a file that they labeled “war crimes” to document the systematic violations of the Geneva Conventions and laws against torture that they witnessed – before being told by superiors to close the file.

    According to the Inspector General’s report, the FBI protests reached the White House but went unheeded. Instead, the prisoner abuses spread to Iraq where the Abu Ghraib prison was “Gitmo-ized” with the same harsh and bizarre tactics applied to Iraqi detainees.

    So, the new Inspector General’s report adds to the growing body of evidence that – in the months before Election 2004 – Bush only feigned shock about what was being done to detainees in American custody.

    The evidence is now overwhelming that Bush knew of – and approved of – those violations of the rules of war and basic human decency, that the “war crimes” catalogued by the FBI agents could be traced to him.
    ABC News: Sources: Top Bush Advisors Approved 'Enhanced Interrogation'
    Highly placed sources said a handful of top advisers signed off on how the CIA would interrogate top al Qaeda suspects -- whether they would be slapped, pushed, deprived of sleep or subjected to simulated drowning, called waterboarding.

    The high-level discussions about these "enhanced interrogation techniques" were so detailed, these sources said, some of the interrogation sessions were almost choreographed -- down to the number of times CIA agents could use a specific tactic.

    The advisers were members of the National Security Council's Principals Committee, a select group of senior officials who met frequently to advise President Bush on issues of national security policy.

    At the time, the Principals Committee included Vice President Cheney, former National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Colin Powell, as well as CIA Director George Tenet and Attorney General John Ashcroft.
    And I can't leave off my neo-con friends' favorite site, The Daily KOS!
    Daily Kos: Bush War Crimes must be punished: not just FAR LEFT who want investigations

    We need to cry out loudly for accountability.

    To ignore these war crimes is a slap in the face to not only those who suffered needlessly in this war based on conspiracy theories about mushroom clouds and yellowcake, but to all prior victims of war crimes throughout history. It would mean we learned nothing from past horrors and that we are destined to repeat atrocities in the future. It means that we condone what was done in our names, and we, therefore, become culpable.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

  10. #40
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    Re: Will we see war crime prosecutions, and are they justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Meh. The concept of "war crimes" was a farce when it was invented, and the first convictions and executions on the basis of "war crimes" were ex post facto. They are nothing more than an excuse for the winners of a war to execute the losers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    I disagree. A mechanism was and is needed to inhibit strife and warfare from morphing into genocide.
    I disagree. The mere existence of a cultural or "racial" group does not justify its continued existence, and there is nothing special about these groups which requires special protection. Genocide itself is no worse than the strife and warfare which create it, and strife and warfare are natural and necessary parts of the human condition.

    Besides, what good does this mechanism accomplish, when it is only used in the fashion that I have described? How is it inhibiting genocide in the Sudan, Rwanda, or Zimbabwe? What good will it do when the American death count in Iraq surpassed Saddam's?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Our President, and every U.S. citizen, MUST follow international laws.
    No law is worth more than the ability to enforce it. Our President will never face trial for war crimes, and no US citizen will face trial for war crimes without our consent.

    At least as far as the United States is concerned, "international law" is not worth the paper that it is printed upon.

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