View Poll Results: What is "common sense" gun control?

Voters
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  • Federal registration of guns

    16 47.06%
  • Federal licensing of gun owners

    13 38.24%
  • Instant background checks for dealer transfers

    18 52.94%
  • Instant background checks for private transfers

    15 44.12%
  • 5-day waiting periods for handgun purchases

    10 29.41%
  • 5-day waiting period for all gun purchases

    9 26.47%
  • Ban guns from felons and those adjudicated ‘mentally infirm’

    25 73.53%
  • Ban handguns

    2 5.88%
  • Ban ‘assault weapons’

    4 11.76%
  • Other (specify)

    11 32.35%
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Thread: What is "common sense" gun control?

  1. #51
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnie1988 View Post
    The restrictions on free speech - even as prior restraints - are generally too protect others, not to restrain the words. Certain types of words are deemed inherently poising to great a danger to others to allow.
    Yes... but to protect others from actual harm (as in slanderl/libel) or potential harm from clear, immediate and present danger (such as inciting a riot). Simple posession of a gun causes neither actual harm, nor does it create a clear, immediate and present danger.

    Restrictions on weapons also are to protect others, not to restrain guns. Certain types of weapons inherently poise to great a danger to others.
    Simple posession of any firearm inherently poses a threat to no one. Background checks, licenseing and registration are restrictions on simple posession, and as such, protect no one, and therefore do indeed restrain guns.

    There is an inherent balancing necessary to rights as one right comes to infringe on the rights of others.
    Your right to swing your fist ends as it hits my nose.
    The swing of the fist, not the posession of said fist, is the determiner here.
    This is why it is illegal to fire a gun into the air inside city limits, and why such a ban does not violate the 2nd. This is the 2A equivelant to yelling fire in a theater.

    I have a right - in my opinion - to not be exposed to the danger of someone with nuclear weapons living next door as an extreme example.
    And one irrelevant to the conversation.

    I have a right to send my children to school without fear of the escalated danger of some demented person entering the school with a fully automatic Uzi in each hand.
    Even if this were true (and given that your right to be 'free from fear' does not exist...)
    My simple poseesion of such a weapon does not violate your right to this.

    I have a right to attend a Sarah Palin rally without fear of someone opening up with a fully automatic 50 caliber on us from a mile away.
    Even if this were true....
    My simple poseesion of such a weapon does not violate your right to do this.

    But I also have a right to carry my .357 derringer in my purse. I don't see it as an infringement that I first had to obtain a license
    You may not see it that way -- but, under the argument put forth here, it most certainly is, as simple posession creates a danger to the rights of no one.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 12-17-08 at 03:35 PM.

  2. #52
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post

    And one irrelevant to the conversation.




    Actually, your sluffing that off loses your entire claim. To use your quote:

    Simple possession of a nuclear weapon does not create a clear, immediate and present danger.

    You obviously believe a person should be able to carry a weapon anywhere - such as in the public White House or school houses. Someone walking through a public school carrying a machine gun by itself doesn't poise any danger at all - your reasoning anyway.
    Last edited by Bonnie1988; 12-17-08 at 03:38 PM.

  3. #53
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnie1988 View Post
    Actually, your sluffing that off loses your entire claim.
    The discussion is gun control. not nuclear weapons.
    Therefore, any discussion of nuclear weapons is irrelevant.
    IF there is a counter to my argument, then it can be exercised without referral to irrelevant issues.

    How does my simple posession of a 50BMG machinegun cause you harm?
    How does my simple posession of a 50BMG machinegun create a clear, immediate and present danger to you?

    If you cannot answer these questions, then you cannot use these arguments to support the idea that restrictions on simple posession do not create an infringement on the 2nd, usig the same reaosning that they do not create an abridgement of the 1st.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 12-17-08 at 03:42 PM.

  4. #54
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The discussion is gun control. not nuclear weapons.
    Therefore, any discussion of nuclear weapons is irrelevant.
    IF there is a counter to my argument, then it can be exercised without referral to irrelevant issues.
    Then you draw your line. What weapons do you accept can be prohibited or regulated? What about a fully automatic 20 mm cannon? Flame thrower? Grenade launcher with grenade? Fully auto 50 caliber?

    Then justify the restriction on your doctrine.

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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnie1988 View Post
    Then you draw your line.
    This has already been done.

    Then justify the restriction on your doctrine.
    As YOU support the restrictions, It is YOUR job to justify them.

    And, in case you didnt see my edit:

    How does my simple posession of a 50BMG machinegun cause you harm?
    How does my simple posession of a 50BMG machinegun create a clear, immediate and present danger to you?

    If you cannot answer these questions, then you cannot use these arguments to support the idea that restrictions on simple posession do not create an infringement on the 2nd, usig the same reaosning that they do not create an abridgement of the 1st.

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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    I've already told my view.
    I believe as a matter of public/social policy, a person should be required to show competency on a weapon in terms of usage and law before ownership.

    In terms of weapons restrictions, I favor highly regulating/restricting mass kill or extreme penetration weapons. Our society cannot function with anyone able to possess a weapon for which there is no hiding or defense whatsoever nor with anyone able to own a mass-kill weapon.

    Criminal laws don't protect one single person from a crime. They only after-the-fact punish which does nothing for the victims.

    At the time of the Constitution, walls stopped bullets. Now they don't.

    Since you exclude nuclear weapons as right, your "ownership causes no danger" just falls as a doctrine. A mini-gun at a football game equates to the killing power of a bomb. Or do you also support the right of people to carry explosives because they also don't poise immediate danger and it is only people who kill, not bombs?

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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This has already been done.


    As YOU support the restrictions, It is YOUR job to justify them.

    And, in case you didnt see my edit:

    How does my simple posession of a 50BMG machinegun cause you harm?
    How does my simple posession of a 50BMG machinegun create a clear, immediate and present danger to you?

    If you cannot answer these questions, then you cannot use these arguments to support the idea that restrictions on simple posession do not create an infringement on the 2nd, usig the same reaosning that they do not create an abridgement of the 1st.
    Are you afraid to state any weapons you wouldn't allow ownership of without any licensing or restrictions?
    What about Mini-guns that fire 6,000 bullets a minute. Ok with that?

  8. #58
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnie1988 View Post
    Are you afraid to state any weapons you wouldn't allow ownership of without any licensing or restrictions?
    What about Mini-guns that fire 6,000 bullets a minute. Ok with that?
    Yup, seems ok to me. Who the hell's gonna carry around that much ammo. Plus a good rifle will take care of that jerk anyway.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #59
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnie1988 View Post
    I've already told my view.
    I believe as a matter of public/social policy, a person should be required to show competency on a weapon in terms of usage and law before ownership.
    Thats fine,,, but you havent explained how this doesnt create a prior-restraint style restriction on the right to arms.

    In terms of weapons restrictions, I favor highly regulating/restricting mass kill or extreme penetration weapons.
    How does my simple posession of a 50BMG machinegun cause you harm?
    How does my simple posession of a 50BMG machinegun create a clear, immediate and present danger to you?

    Our society cannot function with anyone able to possess a weapon for which there is no hiding or defense whatsoever nor with anyone able to own a mass-kill weapon.
    Unsupportable.

    Criminal laws don't protect one single person from a crime. They only after-the-fact punish which does nothing for the victims.
    Irelevant to the discussion.

    At the time of the Constitution, walls stopped bullets. Now they don't.
    Stone walls, sure.
    Otherwise -- incorrect.
    And in either case - irrelevant to the discussion.

    Since you exclude nuclear weapons as right, your "ownership causes no danger" just falls as a doctrine.
    Not that you have shown.

    A mini-gun at a football game equates to the killing power of a bomb.
    How does my simple posession of a minigun cause you harm?
    How does my simple posession of a minigun create a clear, immediate and present danger to you?

    If you cannot answer these questions, then you cannot use these arguments as applied to the first amendment to support the idea that restrictions on simple posession do not create an infringement on the 2nd.

    Remember -- we're talking about licending and registration and background checks, all of which are restrictions on simple posession.

  10. #60
    Norville Rogers
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnie1988 View Post
    Are you afraid to state any weapons you wouldn't allow ownership of without any licensing or restrictions?
    What about Mini-guns that fire 6,000 bullets a minute. Ok with that?
    IIRC (and please correct me if I'm wrong - the 2nd isn't my forte) the courts have said that the second applies to any weapon 'in common use at the time for lawful purposes' or something to that effect

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