View Poll Results: What is "common sense" gun control?

Voters
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  • Federal registration of guns

    16 47.06%
  • Federal licensing of gun owners

    13 38.24%
  • Instant background checks for dealer transfers

    18 52.94%
  • Instant background checks for private transfers

    15 44.12%
  • 5-day waiting periods for handgun purchases

    10 29.41%
  • 5-day waiting period for all gun purchases

    9 26.47%
  • Ban guns from felons and those adjudicated ‘mentally infirm’

    25 73.53%
  • Ban handguns

    2 5.88%
  • Ban ‘assault weapons’

    4 11.76%
  • Other (specify)

    11 32.35%
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Thread: What is "common sense" gun control?

  1. #31
    Norville Rogers
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    It is a precondition on the exercise of a right that is not inherent to that right.
    As such, it is a form of prior restraint.
    Prior restraint is an infeingement.

    Same for licensing and registration.
    I don't think the ban on prior restraint applies to any of the rights except speech/press

    **EDIT**
    Also prior restraint is not the same as preconditions. Prior restraint means that you cannot prevent somebody from publishing something, you have to wait and then press charges/file suit
    Last edited by Kernel Sanders; 12-17-08 at 02:29 PM.

  2. #32
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    I don't think the ban on prior restraint applies to any of the rights except speech/press
    If the -concept- applies to one right, it applies to them all.

    Prior restraint means that you cannot prevent somebody from publishing something, you have to wait and then press charges/file suit
    And so, as applied to gun ownership -- the government cannot prevent someone from exercising their right to own/buy/use a gun until -after- they do something illegal with it.

    Prior restraint attempts to prevent an illegal act before it happens by restricting a right. In these terms, guns and free speech are the same thing.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 12-17-08 at 02:34 PM.

  3. #33
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post

    And so, as applied to gun ownership -- the government cannot prevent someone from exercising their right to own/buy/use a gun until -after- they do something illegal with it.

    Prior restraint attempts to prevent an illegal act before it happens by restricting a right. In these terms, guns and free speech are the same thing.
    Its not that simple as the definition of "arms" (the term in the Bill Of Rights) also is at question. What about a 16 inch caliber "gun" off an old warship?

    Free speech is restricted in many regards. You can't shout "fire" in a crowded theater the most commonly given. You can't threaten to harm the president. Actually, threatening to violently harm anyone generally is criminal. You can be economically punished for liable and slander. You can't urge others to do violence or crimes. There are volumes of restrictions on commercial language. You can't talk for someone else in court unless you are a licensed lawyer. Can't give some types of medical advice unless you are a licensed doctor. All those are "prior restraints."

    "Licensing" generally isn't considered a restriction.
    Last edited by Bonnie1988; 12-17-08 at 02:40 PM.

  4. #34
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    It is a precondition on the exercise of a right that is not inherent to that right.
    As such, it is a form of prior restraint.
    Prior restraint is an infeingement.

    Same for licensing and registration.
    I think I took the registration of the guns incorectly. I thought of it as a form of serial number on the gun similar to a VIN number on vehicles.

    I figure that all gun owners can use this number when a gun is stolen etc so that if the gun is discovered by police in the use of a crime, they would be able to have some knowledge as to how th egun was obtained. I figured it would be usefull in tracking thefts and whatnot, and thus could prevent criminals from obtaining guns, whereas it wouldn't infringe on the rights of law-abiding citizens.

    I don't really think that was what you meant by registration, though. I might be wrong.
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  5. #35
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnie1988 View Post
    Its not that simple as the definition of "arms" (the term in the Bill Of Rights) also is at question. What about a 16 inch caliber "gun" off an old warship?
    "Arms", as the term is used in the 2nd, unquestionably applies to any weapon you'd care to mention within the context of a conversation regarding "gun control".

    Free speech is restricted in many regards. You can't shout "fire" in a crowded theater the most commonly given.
    What is the 2nd amendment equivelant to that?

    You can't threaten to harm the president. Actually, threatening to violently harm anyone generally is criminal.
    What is the 2nd amendment equivelant to that?

    You can be economically punished for liable and slander. You can't urge others to do violence or crimes.
    What are the 2nd amendment equivelants to these?

    There are volumes of restrictions on commercial language. You can't talk for someone else in court unless you are a licensed lawyer. Can't give some types of medical advice unless you are a licensed doctor.
    What are the 2nd amendment equivelants to these?

  6. #36
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I think I took the registration of the guns incorectly. I thought of it as a form of serial number on the gun similar to a VIN number on vehicles.

    I figure that all gun owners can use this number when a gun is stolen etc so that if the gun is discovered by police in the use of a crime, they would be able to have some knowledge as to how th egun was obtained. I figured it would be usefull in tracking thefts and whatnot, and thus could prevent criminals from obtaining guns, whereas it wouldn't infringe on the rights of law-abiding citizens.

    I don't really think that was what you meant by registration, though. I might be wrong.
    By "registration" I mean the requirement to inform the government that you have such and such a gun.

  7. #37
    Norville Rogers
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If the -concept- applies to one right, it applies to them all.
    Uhhh...no. That's not how it works. In Near v Minnesota SCOTUS ruled prior restraint in first amendment issues unconstitutional. They ruled on a 1st amd. issue and the ruling applies only to the 1st amd. Not the entire constitution


    And so, as applied to gun ownership -- the government cannot prevent someone from exercising their right to own/buy/use a gun until -after- they do something illegal with it.
    That is not how the law or the constitution reads.

    Prior restraint attempts to prevent an illegal act before it happens by restricting a right. In these terms, guns and free speech are the same thing.
    So does taking a person who threatens suicide into protecting custody. Thankfully, prior restraint does not apply in this instance because no court or law has ever applied it to suicide (just like gun control)
    Last edited by Kernel Sanders; 12-17-08 at 02:48 PM. Reason: formatting

  8. #38
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    How many gun owners have used a gun in any extreme to protect their home and or loved ones? Tell your tale here: Here's mine. I used mine one time when myf ront door was kicked off the hinges by someone who thought someone was going to shoot him. I did not fire but held him at bay until the cops came to sort it out.
    While we were having a small get together some teenagers pulled up in front of our house and jumped out and started beating our car and a neighbor's with baseball bats for no apparent reason. My husband ran in the house, got our gun, and ran out to fire a warning shot. The kid then proceeded to break our back windshield before running back to the car and taking off. When the cops came they then proceeded to act like a bunch of assholes because we brought out our gun to defend ourselves and our property. When we asked one cop to see if they could get fingerprints off of a beer bottle one of the kids had thrown he said "This ain't CSI" and just left it there, giving us a condensending manner the whole time.Also, according to those pricks, who were passing as cops, using a gun to defend yourself against people like that is against the law. One of the so-called cops actually said that unless the guy is bigger than you, you cannot shoot someone who breaks into your house and call that self defense. Because only if someone is bigger than you can they pose a threat.

  9. #39
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    By "registration" I mean the requirement to inform the government that you have such and such a gun.
    I figured that when I saw your comment that I quoted. My bad.

    You can knock my vote off for that one.
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  10. #40
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    Re: What is "common sense" gun control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    Uhhh...no. That's not how it works. In Near v Minnesota SCOTUS ruled prior restraint in first amendment issues unconstitutional. They ruled on a 1st amd. issue and the ruling applies only to the 1st amd. Not the entire constitution
    You seem to think that I am arguing that there is precedent that supports my decision. Not sur ehow you came up with that, but....

    In fact, I am arguing conceptually. That any given court hasnt ruled that way is meaningless.

    And so, as applied to gun ownership -- the government cannot prevent someone from exercising their right to own/buy/use a gun until -after- they do something illegal with it.
    That is not how the law or the constitution reads.
    Tell me the difference, conceptually.

    So does taking a person who threatens suicide into protecting custody.
    This person has commited an action that is not pursuant to this rights.
    Thus, your example here is non-sequitur.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 12-17-08 at 02:51 PM.

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