Originally Posted by Ethereal
I am a vet. I was in Iraq for seven months. Welcome to the DP. And this misses the point entirely. Kali has no right to make generalized statements as to whose life was wasted and whose wasn't. The only person who can make that determination is the one making the sacrifice. If I had died in Iraq the last thing I'd want is for some fringe leftist whackos to use it as an excuse to berate the President.
No doubt a definitive collection of data. Saracasm aside, these families, although entitled to their opinion, do not get to make that determination as it concerns the troops. Only the ones with boots on the ground get to decide whether or not they are wasting their lives. You do not get to decide for me, nor does Kali, nor does my family. It's my life, my decision.
With that said, I do disagree with your premise that "Only the ones with boots on the ground get to decide whether or not they are wasting their lives." Once someone joins the military their free choice is gone, out the window, kaput. They in effect trust that their leaders, including the president, will hold their lives as valuable as their families do. That their president will only put their lives in danger if it is absolutely necessary.
This president abused his power and abdicated his responsibility to his military personnel by inserting them into a groundless war based on his own lies. This president put our servicemen and women in further mortal danger because he allowed that imbecile Rumsfeld to go against all common sense and accepted military tactics, by putting all those brave souls in too few number to accomplish their mission with "overwhelming force" to ensure minimal casualties. They also took no steps to protect your fellow servicemen with the proper, and available, equipment to also minimize injuries. Not to mention thinking through the initial invasion and having a well thought out plan for the occupation and withdrawal from said innocent country. Talk about irresponsible!
Our servicemen and women are not over in Iraq defending their country. They are not now, nor have they ever been, saving their country from any imminent danger of invasion or attack. They all have been sacrificed to serve this president's ego and selfish, financial reasons. Period.
The trust of these brave souls, including you, has been betrayed. Our service men and women certainly have earned the right to be proud of the job they are doing. However, their families and friends and countrymen also have the right to believe that their lives are being wasted. Many families are absolutely out of their minds po'd at Bush for the senseless killing of their loved one.
Just because they are in the military does not mean their lives are only the military's to do with what they wish, with no regard to the lunacy of the orders they are obliged to follow. The military can, and does, punish service men and women if they get too bad a sunburn because they are "damaging military property". That's the same assinine attitude some leaders, BUSH!, use when deciding what situations they will send our brave defenders to be in.
No sir. Believing a loved one's life was wasted in that war of lies is a right all of us own. You were not over there alone. You would not have died alone. You would have been remembered by many, and your honor defended by many. Your life mattered to more than just you. All of ours do.
Should it come out, via a legal investigation and conviction at trial, that Bush and company led us into a war based on lies (which they did!) it will be written in history (and probably will be anyway) that all those who died in Iraq would have died in vain. A false war is not a war of honor. Fighting, and dying, over a lie is a waste of a brave patriot.
It is these reasons, at a minimum, that Bush and Cheney should be tried and convicted of treason. Just today Cheney admitted, in an interview, that had all their claims of Iraq having WMDs been known to be false "before they invaded", they still would have been justified invading Iraq. This man belongs behind bars.
We value men and women like you too much to allow your lives to be wasted in selfish wars of the elite.
Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!
Only meaningless within the context of our discussion. It wasn't my intention to belittle your experience with this veteran.It is probably meaningless to you...
I'm sorry if I mistook your story for some kind of rebuttal, but normally that's what I assume happens when another person "replies" to the other in a debate forum.As it wasn't meant or directed toward you in any explanation.
No phallic similarity intended on my part. Apologies.But thanks for being a d1ck.
You are very much welcome.I sincerely thank you for your courage and your service, Ethereal.
Sorry, but when someone physically attacks another human being without provocation they lose the moral high ground and hence their right not to get kicked in the mouth.For you to claim if you had been there you would have assulted the shoe guy shows you are no better than him.
Yes, I too would laugh at such a pathetic and childish display of emotion. You, on the other hand, characterize it as a noble protest. Lets us know what you think of civilized and constructive dialogue. Tell me, when McDonald's forgets to put ketchup on your cheeseburger do you throw excrement at the employees?It also is proof that even idiot Bush has more class and a better sense of humor than you. Bush thought it was funny.
Perhaps you require a lesson in interpreting reality. You see, when one looks at the information under someone's handle (forum name) it provides you with several helpful bits of information; for instance, their political leaning. Why is this important? Because if you have a rough estimation of their ideological perspective it helps you understand where they are coming from. If you looked at my political leaning you would notice it specifies "libertarian". A smart person would logically infer that libertarian-minded individuals, not being fans of Bush, aren't accurately characterized as "Bush sheep" and that you - a partisan hack - are merely making an erroneous and idiotic assumption.Bush sheep are more upset over the whole thing than Bush.
When a nutty right winger disrespect Obama? It does not send me into some lame tizzy. Just something to be expected. Guess I am not as uptight as some
Last edited by Kali; 12-16-08 at 10:33 PM.
I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK
Active duty personnel are bound by the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). Freedom of speech is restricted under this code. However I can assure you that there families or their own lifes will not be threatened should they speak out against the war or the Commander in Chief.
When America is strong the world is calm, When America is weak tyrants and terrorist slaughter the meek. ~ SgtRock