View Poll Results: Will America Collapse?

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  • No, we are too strong

    10 23.26%
  • Yes, but far in the future

    11 25.58%
  • Yes, and it will be sooner than later

    13 30.23%
  • I don't know but I slept at a Holiday Inn last night

    9 20.93%
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Thread: The Five Stages of Collapse

  1. #31
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    Re: The Five Stages of Collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Invayne View Post
    Um, haven't you heard? That's what we're getting. shhh...don't tell anybody.
    But they told me Obama would move to the center!!! They lied to us????

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    Re: The Five Stages of Collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    -That- was me.
    Never mind that what you posted here does nothing to address the validity of his statement.
    Actually it does. If America experienced the kind of near apocalyptic decline he's talking about the number of people who would survive it would be so minuscule they'd probably just die off from old age and that's a very generous estimate. Think about it for a minute. What percentage of the American populace hunts for it's food? What percentage of the American populace relies on vehicles whenever it wants to go hunting? Getting food? Necessities? Say what you will but this wet dream so many gun owners have that if the world ends they'll survive is destroyed the moment they drive into wal-mart to pick up their holiday chickens. Very few will make it and knowing how to hunt will make a very small difference if it ever comes to down to it.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  3. #33
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    Re: The Five Stages of Collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. President View Post
    I agree, but there is a big difference between "The Great Depression" and any recession that followed. I think our course will take us to greater depths than the Great Depression. Will America survive? Of course...but I'm afraid it will be a shell of its former self.
    Well, we all watched "Russia" collapse. In your opinion, being one who travels to and fro, is modern day Russia a shell of it's former self? Has it survived the collapse or is it forever doomed?

    Just my opinion, mind you, but I think America as we know it will change. Collapse might be too strong of a word but perhaps not. But I have no doubt, in my heart of hearts, that we will survive.

    I can skin a buck, I can run a trot line. A country boy can survive.

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

  4. #34
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    Re: The Five Stages of Collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Actually it does.
    You saying so doesnt make it so.
    See below.

    What percentage of the American populace hunts for it's food?
    This is the wrong question.
    What % of the American populace CAN hunt for their food?
    What % of the rest of the populace will be fed by that %?

    What percentage of the American populace relies on vehicles whenever it wants to go hunting?
    Again, the wrong question.
    What % of those that hunt MUST rely on vehicles to do so?

    Say what you will but this wet dream so many gun owners have that if the world ends they'll survive is destroyed the moment they drive into wal-mart to pick up their holiday chickens.
    Obviously not.

    However, this much IS true:
    In post-collapse America, those that own guns and/or hunt for their food will be FAR better off than those of you that do not.

  5. #35
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    Re: The Five Stages of Collapse

    I have seen some comments here on both sides that I don't agree with.

    Here is what I think:

    1) Yes, there will be a collapse. Actually, the collapse is now in progress.

    2) It won't be the end of the USA. This is an economic collapse. Orlov draws a pretty good parallel between this one and the one that led to the end of the Soviet Union.

    3) Our collapse won't be as bad. The Soviet Union went under after their government attempted huge infusions of cash into their market. However, the Russian market was much smaller and the government unable to sustain the infusions of cash, due to the size of the Soviet economy.

    4) In both cases, the last stage was hastened by massive stimulus.

    5) Russia is still around today. The USA will also survive. However, as Russian expansionism ended, so will American expansionism end. The world will be dominated by multipolarism, in which there will be a major power in several areas of the world, and is will be regional powers instead of one or two powers dominating the world.

    I have a live feed to Russia Today, which I watch during the week, along with feeds from other news channels, such as Sky News from the UK, FR24 from France, and CC9 from China. Dmitry Orlov was interviewed today, and I saw that interview. A copy of that interview can be viewed at the Russia Today website.

    Now you might wonder why I watch all these foreign channels. My answer is that, with the corporatization of our own news channels, we are no longer getting the entire picture, and much of our news is somewhat politicized. Foreign news channels do help to fill in the gaps. As John Adams said: "

    Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people"
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

  6. #36
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    Re: The Five Stages of Collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. President View Post
    I agree, but there is a big difference between "The Great Depression" and any recession that followed. I think our course will take us to greater depths than the Great Depression. Will America survive? Of course...but I'm afraid it will be a shell of its former self.
    I think collapse is an overstatement, I agree that the U.S. will fall from it's world prominence as the economic and world leader, but this is by all historical accounts nothing new. Actually, it is all apart of a greater cycle of economic fluctuation.

    In the time pre-Renaissance, the economic power of the world was China and to some degree India. The Silk Road as well as naval trading brought vast amounts of silver and gold to the East. As Europe arose from the dark ages and began to explore the world, their conquests shifted economic prowess West. The discovery of the New World and its wealth of silver and gold caused a flood of money into China leading to inflation and eventually economic collapse.

    We are now nearing a complete 360, as China now owns much of the U.S. debt and is exporting heavily into the West. China is also building it's own consumer base as wages rise in the nation and the U.S. economy suffers. Ultimately, the U.S. will fall to the shadows of the Eastern giants with most of Europe as the balance shifts once again.

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    Re: The Five Stages of Collapse

    I think the only thing we Americans need to do is be okay with a slightly smaller way of life. Sustainability is the great equipoise of life.
    My English is not always perfect, so please, try not to go nuts as I lack infallible grammar and spelling.

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    Re: The Five Stages of Collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I think collapse is an overstatement, I agree that the U.S. will fall from it's world prominence as the economic and world leader, but this is by all historical accounts nothing new. Actually, it is all apart of a greater cycle of economic fluctuation.

    In the time pre-Renaissance, the economic power of the world was China and to some degree India. The Silk Road as well as naval trading brought vast amounts of silver and gold to the East. As Europe arose from the dark ages and began to explore the world, their conquests shifted economic prowess West. The discovery of the New World and its wealth of silver and gold caused a flood of money into China leading to inflation and eventually economic collapse.

    We are now nearing a complete 360, as China now owns much of the U.S. debt and is exporting heavily into the West. China is also building it's own consumer base as wages rise in the nation and the U.S. economy suffers. Ultimately, the U.S. will fall to the shadows of the Eastern giants with most of Europe as the balance shifts once again.
    I am always amused at the notion that Communist China is some dominant player in economic terms. Their people wallow in abject poverty which is the ONLY reason China can "export" the slave labor wages their people get paid.

    As for the US debt China owns, let me ask you all a question; if the bank loans a significant amount of money to a debtor, who controls the future of both, the debtor, or the bank?

    The fact that China holds so much US debt is two fold; one to prop up their currency and two, because without the US, China's growth and markets would dramatically shrink.

    The ONLY thing that can bring down the American economy are the very "liberal" policies we are seeing from the current administration. What I fear is that once Government programs get into place, they are extremely difficult to retract; but I have faith that once Americans see the true cost of Liberal policies and the REALITY that they create NOTHING but more poverty and mediocrity, they will vote for politicians that will reverse this trend.

    We see Europe struggling with this now and in the long run, may shrug off the burden of Socialism. Governments cannot manage economies, they cannot operate efficiently and they compete with capital markets and stifle the ingenuity and creativity necessary to continue expanding the economic pie. The moment Governments get into the business of over regulating (while actually providing little in the way of preventive oversight) and deciding who the winners in the economy will be (Obama's targeting "green" initiatives and carbon credits) and increase social welfare and creating a dependent class of citizens, you will see decline.

    Obama, while sincerely caring about what happens to the poor and less fortunate among is, creates policies that actually make things worse for them; higher costs, less job opportunity and dependence on Government.

  9. #39
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    Re: The Five Stages of Collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I am always amused at the notion that Communist China is some dominant player in economic terms. Their people wallow in abject poverty which is the ONLY reason China can "export" the slave labor wages their people get paid.

    As for the US debt China owns, let me ask you all a question; if the bank loans a significant amount of money to a debtor, who controls the future of both, the debtor, or the bank?

    The fact that China holds so much US debt is two fold; one to prop up their currency and two, because without the US, China's growth and markets would dramatically shrink.

    The ONLY thing that can bring down the American economy are the very "liberal" policies we are seeing from the current administration. What I fear is that once Government programs get into place, they are extremely difficult to retract; but I have faith that once Americans see the true cost of Liberal policies and the REALITY that they create NOTHING but more poverty and mediocrity, they will vote for politicians that will reverse this trend.

    We see Europe struggling with this now and in the long run, may shrug off the burden of Socialism. Governments cannot manage economies, they cannot operate efficiently and they compete with capital markets and stifle the ingenuity and creativity necessary to continue expanding the economic pie. The moment Governments get into the business of over regulating (while actually providing little in the way of preventive oversight) and deciding who the winners in the economy will be (Obama's targeting "green" initiatives and carbon credits) and increase social welfare and creating a dependent class of citizens, you will see decline.

    Obama, while sincerely caring about what happens to the poor and less fortunate among is, creates policies that actually make things worse for them; higher costs, less job opportunity and dependence on Government.
    China's people are not as poor as you may think. Sure, the rural areas are still light-years behind the cities, but it is growing rapidly.

    China | Are you being served? | Economist.com

    This article from 2006 comments on the rapidly growing consumerism in China.

  10. #40
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    Re: The Five Stages of Collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by quatrotritikali View Post
    Well, according to the latest predictions by end-of-the-world conspiracy nuts, mankind is marked for death come May of 2012 (according to the Mayan calendar).

    Sounds a bit like a repeat, sort of, of Y2K. I see the coming date as a great reason to have a party...whether anything apocalyptic happens or not.
    I thought the Maya said that's when their long calender resets in conjunction with our position in the solar system and our earth completing is 23,000 year wobble on the same day. I thought they predicted that is the day we change from children of corn into children of truth. And I thought they predicted on the long count before on the same date we changed from children of the trees into children of the woods.

    End of the Earth is Christian/Viking talk.
    Last edited by dirtpoorchris; 03-09-09 at 01:09 PM.
    Is society was made of coral our world would be floral.

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