View Poll Results: Where does racism come from?

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  • From parents

    18 45.00%
  • From environment

    17 42.50%
  • Lack of education

    16 40.00%
  • Instinct promoting similar genes to yourself

    5 12.50%
  • Other (post reply)

    17 42.50%
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Thread: Where does racism come from?

  1. #51
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    Re: Where does racism come from?

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    The krux of the discussion isn't that people have different characteristics that are genetically determined, it is whether or not race exists. Let me direct you back to the actual discussion, since you are so keen on avoiding it:
    The krux of the matter is that is what race is. Stop denying that, it's not like different, hence different races are bad, they just are.



    You can't talk about these different categories without first defining them. That is what I am waiting for you to do.
    It's a ridiculous point so I am ignoring it, you know what the accepted definitions are, but here, for your satisfaction. Black = people with high melanin counts, predominance for brown hair/eyes, curly haired. White = low melanin count, gets sunburned easily, straighter hair with predominant brown hair eyes, but with recessive genes towards lighter colors.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Where does racism come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Talk View Post
    I'd like to see you address the point that humans fit the definition of monotypic.
    Ethnic group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Where does racism come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    That link seems to directly contradict your view.

    Weber however maintained that ethnic groups were "künstlich" (artificial, i.e. a social construct) because they were based on a subjective belief in shared "Gemeinschaft". Secondly, this belief in shared Gemeinschaft did not create the group; the group created the belief. Third, group formation resulted from the drive to monopolise power and status. This was contrary to the prevailing naturalist belief of the time, which held that socio-cultural and behavioral differences between peoples stemmed from inherited traits and tendencies derived from common descent, then called "race".[26]

    Another influential theoretician of ethnicity was Fredrik Barth, whose "Ethnic Groups and Boundaries" from 1969 has been described as instrumental in spreading the usage of the term in social studies in the 1980s and 1990s. [27] Barth went further than Weber in stressing the constructed nature of ethnicity. To Barth Ethnicity was perpetually negotiated and renegotiated by both external ascription and internal self-identification. Barth's view is that ethnic groups are not discontinuous cultural isolates, or logical a prioris to which people naturally belong. He wanted to part with anthropological notions of cultures as bounded entities, and ethnicity as primordialist bonds, replacing it with a focus on the interface between groups. Ethnic Groups and Boundaries, therefore, is a focus on the interconnectedness of ethnic identities. Barth writes: "[...] categorical ethnic distinctions do not depend on an absence of mobility, contact and information, but do entail social processes of exclusion and incorporation whereby discrete categories are maintained despite changing participation and membership in the course of individual life histories."

    In 1978 anthropologist Ronald Cohen claimed that the identification of "ethnic groups" in the usage of social scientists often reflected inaccurate labels more than indigenous realities:

    ... the named ethnic identities we accept, often unthinkingly, as basic givens in the literature are often arbitrarily, or even worse inaccurately, imposed.[27]
    With Weber's introduction of the ethnicity as a social construct, race and ethnicity were divided from each other, since the belief in biologically well defined races lingered on. In 1950, the UNESCO statement The Race Question, signed by some of the internationally renowned scholars of the time (including Ashley Montagu, Claude Lévi-Strauss, Gunnar Myrdal, Julian Huxley, etc.), suggested that: "National, religious, geographic, linguistic and cultural groups do not necessarily coincide with racial groups: and the cultural traits of such groups have no demonstrated genetic connection with racial traits. Because serious errors of this kind are habitually committed when the term 'race' is used in popular parlance, it would be better when speaking of human races to drop the term 'race' altogether and speak of 'ethnic groups'."[39]
    At present the prevailing understanding of race among social scientists is that it is, like ethnicity, a social construct. [41] Often, ethnicity also connotes shared cultural, linguistic, behavioural or religious traits.
    The whole link discusses how race and ethnicity are social not biological constructs.

  4. #54
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    Re: Where does racism come from?

    It's a ridiculous point so I am ignoring it, you know what the accepted definitions are, but here, for your satisfaction. Black = people with high melanin counts, predominance for brown hair/eyes, curly haired.
    That's not even a definition. Above what melanin count? Also, saying that predominant traits define a discrete classification is a logical contradiction.

    What about someone with a high melanin count but straight hair, or blue eyes? What about someone with brown curly hair and eyes but a low melanin count?

    Your definition is completely empty and didn't answer my question at all.

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    Re: Where does racism come from?

    Black = people with high melanin counts, predominance for brown hair/eyes, curly haired.
    East Indians are sometimes as dark as any African- I've seen East Indians that are black, literally; a dusty gray-black-purple color.
    And they often have curly hair.
    If you're referring to frizzy or kinky hair, on the other hand, Jews and mediterranean peoples- Sicilians, Greeks- often have that.
    And as for brown eyes an hair, I have that. Everybody in my family does. We're Scots.

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    Re: Where does racism come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Talk View Post
    That link seems to directly contradict your view.







    The whole link discusses how race and ethnicity are social not biological constructs.
    Yes, it does state social constructs. But genetic science already states that traits are specific to different peoples, invalidating the statemnt that races have no scientific constructs or values. The Monotype argument is only valid as far as we are all human beings, hell, plenty of animals are monotypical, but guess what they aren't the same genetically past a basic DNA structure, that should be painfully obvious.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Where does racism come from?

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    East Indians are sometimes as dark as any African- I've seen East Indians that are black, literally; a dusty gray-black-purple color.
    And they often have curly hair.
    So have I, the point is I am giving a facetious answer to a purposefully oblivious question.
    If you're referring to frizzy or kinky hair, on the other hand, Jews and mediterranean peoples- Sicilians, Greeks- often have that.
    Once again, intentionally stupid questions get intentionally generic answers.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  8. #58
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    Re: Where does racism come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    My mitochondrial DNA is totally into rap music.
    and last I heard there is no cure, or even treatment, for tone deafness.
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

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    Re: Where does racism come from?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Yes, it does state social constructs.
    What in that link was relevant to your point?

    But genetic science already states that traits are specific to different peoples, invalidating the statemnt that races have no scientific constructs or values.
    There are no race specific traits. There are traits that are more common within certain populations. African populations can exhibit light skin (albinism) straight hair and thin noses (Somali's) and epicanthic folds (Khosian). Once again all these traits are clinal and gradually change. Any cut-off point where we declare skin to become white, noses thin, hair straight etc. are simply arbitrary.

    The Monotype argument is only valid as far as we are all human beings, hell, plenty of animals are monotypical, but guess what they aren't the same genetically past a basic DNA structure, that should be painfully obvious.
    Monotype specifically means that no races exist. Beyond basic DNA structure we are all different. Rather there is more variation within a population than between them, two Europeans are less genetically similar than a European and African.[1]

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    Re: Where does racism come from?

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Talk View Post
    What in that link was relevant to your point?
    An ethnic group is a group of human beings whose members identify with each other, usually on a presumed or real common heritage.[1][2] Ethnic identity is further marked by the recognition from others of a group's distinctiveness[3] and the recognition of common cultural, linguistic, religious, behavioral or biological traits,[1][4] real or presumed, as indicators of contrast to other groups.[5]

    Ethnicity is an important means through which people can identify themselves. According to "Challenges of Measuring an Ethnic World: Science, politics, and reality", a conference organized by Statistics Canada and the United States Census Bureau (April 1-3, 1992), "Ethnicity is a fundamental factor in human life: it is a phenomenon inherent in human experience."[6]




    There are no race specific traits. There are traits that are more common within certain populations.
    Predominance is in itslef a trait.
    African populations can exhibit light skin (albinism)
    That is a mutation, it is a genetic anomally, let's leave it to non-anomolous passing of genes shall we.
    straight hair and thin noses (Somali's) and epicanthic folds (Khosian).
    Different region, different people, but I see your point.
    Once again all these traits are clinal and gradually change.
    Yes, they change because of the nature of reproduction and genetic inheritance itself, that gets complicated and involves centuries of ancestory, but it doesn't disprove that different people have different traits, some are more prominent among various ethnicities(race)
    Any cut-off point where we declare skin to become white, noses thin, hair straight etc. are simply arbitrary.
    Not when they are predominant traits


    Monotype specifically means that no races exist. Beyond basic DNA structure we are all different.
    That would be like saying a Sheppard is a Collie is Retriever, they are all dogs, they can all breed together, but they aren't all the same now are they?
    Rather there is more variation within a population than between them, two Europeans are less genetically similar than a European and African.[
    But may not share the same traits.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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