View Poll Results: The primary problem with firearms

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  • Is the firearm itself

    4 6.15%
  • Is the person pulling the trigger

    61 93.85%
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Thread: Firearms - The Primary Problem

  1. #131
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    Re: Firearms - The Primary Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Shewter View Post
    I wouldnt call it conservative. I would call it sensible.

    There is no such thing as an inanimate object killing someone by itself. There's always something that accompanies the action.

    Conservative, liberal, doesnt matter. Guns don't kill people, the holes that the bullets fired from the gun that the person was using kill people.
    The MSM report SUVs veering off the road and killing people all the time.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)

  2. #132
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    Re: Firearms - The Primary Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The MSM report SUVs veering off the road and killing people all the time.
    But to call a view like gun control (insert political standpoint here) is just silly.

    I tend to be a bit more "liberal" in my views. And so is 99.9% of the state I live in. But for the most part we don't agree with gun control.

    I'm not saying either party doesnt have there share of ridiculous flaws in logic.

    Just that the 2nd amendment isnt a Conservative idea.
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    Don't apologize to me over that silly ****. I could care less if I can see the dust or not.
    Now apologize for apologizing!

  3. #133
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    Re: Firearms - The Primary Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Shewter View Post
    But to call a view like gun control (insert political standpoint here) is just silly.

    I tend to be a bit more "liberal" in my views. And so is 99.9% of the state I live in. But for the most part we don't agree with gun control.

    I'm not saying either party doesnt have there share of ridiculous flaws in logic.

    Just that the 2nd amendment isnt a Conservative idea.
    It wasn't initially, but became one after the Peace movement. The only justifiable control on guns is a requirement to have adequate training in how to safely handle and store firearms.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)

  4. #134
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    Re: Firearms - The Primary Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    It wasn't initially, but became one after the Peace movement. The only justifiable control on guns is a requirement to have adequate training in how to safely handle and store firearms.
    If liberal political types were actually intelligent they would allow full range ownship under a tiered operators license system much like Class C, B, and A vehicle licenses allowing citizens to own all the way up to field artillery. They would just say.."see anyone can own XXXX weapon but we want them to be safe" while they just made the license requirements extrodinarily tough above certain weapons and pushing for harsher gun crime laws. That would plactate alot of people while bypassing that little 2nd amendment thingy very covertly and subtle.

    Lucky for us they go for full out bans or make laws which deem semi-auto handguns "machine guns" which are easier to protest against.
    Freedom is... never more than one generation away from extinction. Every generation has to learn how to protect and defend it, or its gone and gone for a long, long time- Ronald Reagan

  5. #135
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    Re: Firearms - The Primary Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The thing about rights is that if you are legal US citizen and not in prison then you should not be denied those rights,nor should you have to jump over any hoops in order to be able exercise those rights. Our rights come from the constitution not the government and the second is there so that the people can adequately overthrow the government in the event the government becomes corrupt. Therefore the government should have no authority in deciding any preconditions of those rights, nor should they be allowed to decide what firearms a law abiding citizen should be allowed to own.

    I used to be on board with not allowing convicted felons to own firearms,but as others have pointed out the government decides what is and isn't a felony and if you paid your debt to society by serving your time then you shouldn't be barred from owning firearms. Besides anti-2nd amendment laws will not stop those "prohibited" people as defined in the GCA from obtaining a firearm if they really want those firearms. After all criminals do not obey laws in the first place,this has been mentioned many times in many 2nd amendment discussion threads.

    Punish the criminals,not restrict the rights of law abiding citizen.
    Get tough on crime.Make prison a punishment,not a gay Sanfransickan university on the worst side of town. Remove the televisions, weights, libraries, and computers, they can spend their free time and get exercise by working in chain gangs. No conjugal visits,they are inmates not hotel guest, they are in prison as a punishment. No pussy rich boy private prisons,you get convicted of a crime you should get sent to a real prison like everybody else who gets sent to prison, not some country club prison. Bring back chain gangs to all prisons,not just Arizona, after all they have a debt to pay back to society and prisons cost money to the tax payers to run,so make some of that cost back up by bringing back the chain gangs. Feed the inmates bread(fortified with daily nutritional requirements) and water,if they wanted normal food then they should not be committing crimes in the first place. Bring back the sweat boxes,inmates need to fear and respect the authority of the guards. The worse thing to fear about prison shouldn't be some inmate making you his bitch or getting stabbed or beaten in a prison gang war. If inmates are able to do those things then apparently there is too much freedom in prison. The thing to fear about prison should be the loss of freedom and the loss of things(legal things) you used to do when you were not incarcerated.
    So no easy solutions.

  6. #136
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    Re: Firearms - The Primary Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Invayne View Post
    I have a solution. Let EVERYBODY own one. A criminal will think twice about ****ing with someone knowing they're armed.

    Did somebody REALLY vote for the gun?
    Everyone can already own weapons (2nd Amendment) unless they fall into the categories defined within the GCA so that's not really working at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals nor keeping criminals from committing crimes with weapons either.


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    Re: Firearms - The Primary Problem

    One of the reasons that you never hear about guns helping people,is our liberal press.Their are quite a few instances where guns help people,but they won't tell you about that.The NRA magazine American Rifleman has a page every month about people who chose not to be victims because they own firearms.

    P.S. The guy who would wait 8 minutes for the police,could always video tape the rape of his daughter for prosperity,and show all his neighbors at his cocktail parties.

  8. #138
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    Re: Firearms - The Primary Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by rsixing View Post
    So no easy solutions.
    I think he just gave you some.

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    Re: Firearms - The Primary Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Invayne View Post
    I think he just gave you some.
    Methinks implementation of these offered solutions preclude them from being viable...and seriously I am interested in reading real, plausible, implementable solutions to this issue which do not entertain the loss of 2nd Amendment rights.

  10. #140
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    Re: Firearms - The Primary Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by rsixing View Post
    Methinks implementation of these offered solutions preclude them from being viable...and seriously I am interested in reading real, plausible,
    Apparently some of that stuff is possible.

    Joe Arpaio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Arpaio began to serve inmates surplus food including outdated and oxidized green bologna[13] and limited meals to twice daily. Meal costs would be reduced to 90 cents per day; as of 2007 Arpaio states that he has managed to reduce costs to 30 cents per day. Certain food items were banned from the county jail, mainly coffee (which also reduced "coffee attacks" on corrections officers), but later salt and pepper were removed from the jail (at a purported taxpayer savings of $20,000/year).

    Arpaio banned inmates from possessing "sexually explicit material" including Playboy magazine after female officers complained that inmates openly masturbated while viewing them, or harassed the officers by comparing their anatomy to the nude photos in the publications; the ban was challenged on First Amendment grounds but upheld by the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.[14]

    Smoking and weightlifting equipment were also banned. Entertainment was limited to G-rated movies; the cable TV system (mandated by court order)[citation needed] was blocked by Arpaio to limit viewing to those stations Arpaio deems to be "educational", mainly Animal Planet, Disney Channel, The Weather Channel, A&E, CNN, and the local government access channel.[citation needed]

    Arpaio also instituted a program for inmates to study while in jail and to try to recover from drug abuse. Hard Knocks High lays claim as the only approved high school program in any American jail.[citation needed] Another jail program, called ALPHA, is aimed solely at getting inmates away from drug abuse.

    In October 2005, Arpaio started mandatory two-week English classes for non-English-speaking inmates at his jails. Classes last two hours a day. The curriculum comprises the three branches of government, how a bill becomes law, state government, law enforcement and court services, and jailhouse "situational" terminology. At the end of the two-week course, inmates are required to take a test to see how well they have learned about American government, the words to God Bless America, and the communication of health and safety needs. In response to critics, Arpaio responded, "These inmates happen to be incarcerated in the United States of America and in Maricopa County where I run the jails. We speak English here, not foreign languages."

    In February 2007, Arpaio instituted an in-house radio station he calls KJOE.[15] Arpaio's radio station broadcasts classical music, opera, Frank Sinatra hits, obscenity-free patriotic music, and educational programming, from the basement of the county jail, and operates five days a week, four hours each day.

    In March 2007, the Maricopa County Jail hosted "Inmate Idol"[16], a takeoff on the popular TV show.

    [edit] Tent City

    Arpaio set up a "Tent City" as an extension of the Maricopa County Jail ( [show location on an interactive map] 3325′40″N 11207′26″W / 33.42778, -112.12389 (Maricopa County Jail)). Many prisons and jails throughout the United States have used, and continue to use, tents to house inmates.[17] Tent City is located in a yard next to a more permanent structure containing toilets, showers, an area for meals, and a day room.[18] It has become notable particularly because of Phoenix's extreme temperatures. Daytime temperatures inside the tents have been reported as high as 150 degrees in the top bunks.[19] During the summer, fans and water are supplied in the tents.[20]

    When Arpaio took office, inmates were routinely being released early due to overcrowding. Arpaio believed that "courts, not head count" should determine when an inmate is released, and that no officer should be deterred from making an arrest for fear that the inmate would be released due to jail overcrowding.

    However, a new jail would have cost Maricopa County taxpayers around US$70 million. So instead, Arpaio obtained surplus tents from the military, and established Tent City in a yard adjacent to one of the jail facilities. As an announcement to future inmates that they should not expect early release upon overcrowding, but more tents instead, Arpaio added a (pink neon) "Vacancy" sign to the outside of Tent City. The original sign was destroyed in an inmate riot, but was quickly replaced. A second Tent City was opened in 1996 adjacent to another jail facility, and houses female inmates.

    According to former Sheriff's Office employees, Arpaio emptied an entire floor of one jail to help fill the tent city when it was opened. [21]

    During the summer of 2003, when outside temperatures exceeded 110 F (43 C), which is higher than average, Arpaio said to complaining inmates, "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and the soldiers are living in tents and they didn't commit any crimes, so shut your mouths."[22] Inmates were given permission to wear only their pink underwear.

    Tent City has been criticized by groups contending these are violations of human and constitutional rights, as well as by Erwin James, a journalist for The Guardian currently on parole from a life sentence in Britain,[23] but has been simultaneously praised by those favoring Arpaio's "get tough on crime" approach[who?].

    In response to requests, the Sheriff's office offers group tours of Tent City. In addition, Arpaio has instituted SMART (Shocking Mainstream Adolescents into Resisting Temptation) tents, a voluntary program for middle-school students who are bussed to an area adjacent to Tent City and, for the next 24 hours, shown the reality of jail life.

    [edit] Volunteer chain gangs

    Shortly after taking office, Arpaio reinstituted chain gangs, a form of inmate labor that had been virtually eliminated in the United States. According to Arpaio, his chain gangs are not a form of punishment, but of rehabilitation.

    Jail inmates with disciplinary problems are sent to lockdown, where they are confined to a four-person cell for 23 hours a day. Once in lockdown, low-risk inmates can volunteer for unpaid work on a chain gang as a step to rejoining the general jail population. After 30 days on the chain gang, inmates are eligible to rejoin the general population. Chain gangs perform public-service tasks such as creating fire breaks, cleaning up graffiti, weeding, removing trash, and burying deceased homeless in the county cemetery. They work eight-hours a day, six days a week, mainly outside. Like the rest of the county's jail population, chain-gang members wear traditional black-and-white-striped uniforms and caps.

    Arpaio later expanded the chain gang concept by instituting female volunteer chain gangs.[24] Female inmates work seven hours a day (7 am to 2 pm), six days a week. He has also instituted the world's first all-juvenile volunteer chain gang; volunteers earn high school credit toward a diploma.[25]

    [edit] Pink underwear

    One of Arpaio's most visible public relations successes was the introduction of pink underwear, which the Maricopa County Sheriff's website cites as being "world famous."[26] Arpaio has claimed that that traditional white underwear, labeled with Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, was being smuggled out of the jails and sold on the streets, and he thus had the underwear dyed pink, believing that pink is not considered a "macho" color, and would not be stolen.

    Arpaio subsequently started to sell customized pink boxers (with the Maricopa County Sheriff's logo and "Go Joe") as a fund-raiser for Sheriff's Posse Association. Despite allegations of misuse of funds received from these sales, Arpaio declined to provide an accounting for the money [27].

    Arpaio's success in gaining press coverage with the pink underwear resulted in him extending the use of the color. He introduced pink handcuffs, using the event to promote his book, Sheriff Joe Arpaio, America's Toughest Sheriff. [28]. Later, Arpaio ordered that sheets, socks, towels, and other fabric items be dyed pink.

    [edit] Underwear march

    In 2005, nearly 700 maximum-security prisoners were marched the four blocks from Towers Jail to the newly opened Lower Buckeye Jail, wearing only their underwear and flip-flops to prevent the concealment of weapons. Prisoners were strip-searched when they left Towers Jail and again when they reached their destination.[29]

    "It's a security issue," Arpaio said. "If you let them wear their clothes, they can conceal the fake keys and everything else.[30]

    implementable solutions to this issue which do not entertain the loss of 2nd Amendment rights.
    My solution is to repeal the GCA and other Acts that have anti-2nd amendment laws. Make it extremely easy for anyone to buy arms, there are vastly more honest citizens then there are criminals, a criminal will think twice before robbing someone if he knows that the citizens are armed.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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