View Poll Results: Are vast public works a good idea?

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  • Yes, definitely a good idea.

    4 30.77%
  • Yes, but only if they work on things we really need.

    6 46.15%
  • No, fiscal policy is too slow; monetary policy is better.

    1 7.69%
  • No, absolutely not. Let the market take its course.

    2 15.38%
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Thread: Obama vows vast public works program.

  1. #1
    Educator Onion Eater's Avatar
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    Obama vows vast public works program.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/us...0broder&st=cse

    I will run this poll for a week and then post an article in the Economics section discussing the results and my own views on the subject.
    Is the following quote reckless in the extreme? Then read my 2008 paper about monetary theory:
    http://www.axiomaticeconomics.com/in...e_collapse.php
    Quote Originally Posted by JP Hochbaum View Post
    No tax raises needed, just have the federal government spend the money into existence.

  2. #2
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    Re: Obama vows vast public works program.

    IT will depend on the program itself, which lately like any other government program, probably won't do anything but add red tape.

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    A Tertiary Affect Of Fictional Housing Requests - More Import Workers

    "A Tertiary Affect Of Fictional Housing Requests - More Import Workers"
    Quote Originally Posted by Onion Eater View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/us...0broder&st=cse
    I will run this poll for a week and then post an article in the Economics section discussing the results and my own views on the subject.
    Great , there will not be any strictly US worker hiring requirements, and highway infrastructure contracts will be farmed out to hispanic immigrant visas and the undocumented border crossing entourage.
    Last edited by Monk-Eye; 12-07-08 at 05:58 PM.

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    Re: A Tertiary Affect Of Fictional Housing Requests - More Import Workers

    Look, as conservative as I am, I am NOT, I repeat, NOT against public works programs. Public works programs encourage, well, work. However, whether or not it actually helps the economy will be if it actually gives us what we need. Take the New Deal programs for exampled, they all cost A LOOOOOOT of money, however, the market kicked back in BIG TIME and in the end, we all got a payoff.

    Thing is though, back then, it was all infrastructure projects, which at that time, was what we needed most. Now, we have the infrastructure(mostly), so a cheap copy of the "New Deal" isn't going to help much and just spend more.

  5. #5
    Dispenser of Negativity
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    Re: Obama vows vast public works program.

    Its a good idea but he has yet to say where the money to pay for all of this is coming from.
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

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    fyi Re: Obama vows vast public works program.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    Take the New Deal programs for example, they all cost A LOOOOOOT of money....
    You bet they did. But that was not all. Take the TVA projects and the Oak Ridge facility--they imposed MASSIVE eminent domain seizures. Untold thousands and thousands of people lost their homes, farms and businesses.

    In addition, people lost 43% of their (gold) savings.

    The greatest Ponzi scheme in the history of the world was imposed, and MANDATED.

    Millions lost their jobs when a mandated minimum wage was enacted.

    The federal income tax was multiplied many times. The forms became much more complicated. For the first time, withholding was imposed.

    A massive increase in the national debt.

    Except for a brief period during WW2, the growing and production of marijuana and industrial hemp was outlawed.

    Japanese-American citizens were rounded up and packed into concentration camps.

    And much, much more. Now do you understand why the "New Deal" STINKS????? Wouldn't "RAW DEAL" be a better name for it?


    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    IT will depend on the program itself, which lately like any other government program, probably won't do anything but add red tape.
    You got that right.


    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    He has yet to say where the money to pay for all of this is coming from.
    From tax and/or "fee" increases--big ones. And not only from us, but from our children, our grandchildren, our great-grandchildren,......

    And in addition, we will get deeper and deeeeeeeper and deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeper into DEBT.

  7. #7
    Educator Onion Eater's Avatar
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    Re: Obama vows vast public works program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monk-Eye View Post
    "A Tertiary Affect Of Fictional Housing Requests - More Import Workers"
    Great , there will not be any strictly US worker hiring requirements, and highway infrastructure contracts will be farmed out to hispanic immigrant visas and the undocumented border crossing entourage.
    Immigration is a seperate issue. I will not discuss it in my reply. Maybe illegal immigrants will be hired and maybe they won't, but that is also true of any private construction project as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by ronpaulvoter View Post
    Take the TVA projects and the Oak Ridge facility--they imposed MASSIVE eminent domain seizures. Untold thousands and thousands of people lost their homes, farms and businesses.

    In addition, people lost 43% of their (gold) savings.

    The greatest Ponzi scheme in the history of the world was imposed, and MANDATED.

    Millions lost their jobs when a mandated minimum wage was enacted.

    The federal income tax was multiplied many times. The forms became much more complicated. For the first time, withholding was imposed.

    A massive increase in the national debt.

    Except for a brief period during WW2, the growing and production of marijuana and industrial hemp was outlawed.

    Japanese-American citizens were rounded up and packed into concentration camps.
    I am opposed to eminent domain seizures. However, the public works programs proposed by President-Elect Obama are not of a type (dams, freeways, etc.) that require seizing anybody's property.

    The rest of these issues are independent of public works. It is not that you and Monk Eye are wrong, it is just that Obama is not FDR. It is not fair nor particularly helpful to resurrect every complaint made against FDR and apply it to Obama.

    I respect both of your opinions and will try to incorporate your ideas about Obama's public works proposal into my paper. I originally intended to post it on Sunday but have decided to delay it until after the holidays, as Obama and his advisors are still hashing out the size and composition of the program.
    Is the following quote reckless in the extreme? Then read my 2008 paper about monetary theory:
    http://www.axiomaticeconomics.com/in...e_collapse.php
    Quote Originally Posted by JP Hochbaum View Post
    No tax raises needed, just have the federal government spend the money into existence.

  8. #8
    Educator ronpaulvoter's Avatar
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    fyi Re: Obama vows vast public works program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Onion Eater View Post
    I am opposed to eminent domain seizures. However, the public works programs proposed by President-Elect Obama are not of a type (dams, freeways, etc.) that require seizing anybody's property.

    The rest of these issues are independent of public works. It is not that you and Monk Eye are wrong, it is just that Obama is not FDR....
    The statememt "Vast Public Works" certainly suggests the types of things FDR saddled us with. The word "vast" is particularly scary.

    Where is the money going to come from? Our debt is already many trillions of dollars. How big do we have to make it to satisfy the big spenders? And who is going to pay the tab?

  9. #9
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    Re: Obama vows vast public works program.

    It's been proven that the Raw Deal programs by FDR actually slowed or extended the depression more than they helped.
    I see no reason to believe these programs will not do the same.
    Not to mention I am vehemently opposed to the federal government building infrastructure. That should be the responsibility of the state or local governments.

  10. #10
    Student Pinu7's Avatar
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    Re: Obama vows vast public works program.

    There isn't any good economic stimulus plans. None of them will have have an immediate effect.

    Infrastructure programs take too long to get going.
    Stimulus checks didn't really work.
    Not even tax cuts would bring substantial immediate results.

    However, our infrastructure is crumbling for a while now. So this needed to be done and we shouldn't have waited for a recession to do it.

    As far the new deal, some conservatives do argue that it may have partially/ fully instigated the recession of 1937. But you libertarians have to expand your arguments.

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