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Why calling black people 'niggers' is not racist.

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  • Yes - Because....

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • No - Because....

    Votes: 24 88.9%

  • Total voters
    27
No there is not. Speech is speech. Maybe in places like Canada and other politically correct ****ed up countries they made a so called distinction between the two, but not here in the US.

Bull. Even in the US, there's a difference seen between, for example "I don't like group X" and "Group X should all be shot". Hate speech is hate speech, whether it's being said in Canada, the US or the damn Moon.

jamesrage said:
Regardless of the reasons it is hypocritical for one group of people to piss and moan about another group using a word if they themselves use that word regardless of the context of the word being used. If you actually believed that the word was racist not only would you not use it you wouldn't tolerate others using it regardless of their skin color or the context in which they are using the word. The only thing you are doing is defending blatant hypocrisy.

No, jamesrage, I'm not. I'm saying that if a group of opressed people are trying to rob a hateful word of it's power against them by reclaiming it for themselves, I'm hardly going to tell them they should stop doing so. If it helps them get through the day, fine by me. When I can't even stop people from using a certain word hatefully, it'd be supremely arrogant for me to wander in and try to condemn it's usage amongst the people who've been hurt by it the most. I also find it extremely arrogant and hypocritical that you, as someone who's shown a penchant for racist words himself, would see yourself as qualified to tell groups injured by racism exactly what words they should/should not be using.
 
Bull. Even in the US, there's a difference seen between, for example "I don't like group X" and "Group X should all be shot". Hate speech is hate speech, whether it's being said in Canada, the US or the damn Moon.

The US does not have hate speech laws and if there any it violates the 1st amendment.

Hate speech - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In some jurisdictions, notably the United States, hate speech cannot be directly regulated because of a widespread consensus that suppressing viewpoints based on content alone is outright wrong or leads to a slippery slope (that is, who is to decide what content is a priori true or correct) which ultimately destroys the marketplace of ideas. In particular, the United States government and the state governments are broadly forbidden by the First Amendment of the Constitution from restricting speech.

When I can't even stop people from using a certain word hatefully, it'd be supremely arrogant for me to wander in and try to condemn it's usage amongst the people who've been hurt by it the most..

It has nothing to do with arrogance it has to do with hypocrisy. The it's all right for us to say it and not you is garbage.




I also find it extremely arrogant and hypocritical that you, as someone who's shown a penchant for racist words himself, would see yourself as qualified to tell groups injured by racism exactly what words they should/should not be using


Perhaps you should look up a dictionary next time before using a big word.

hypocrite definition | Dictionary.com
a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.

The general consensus on the word hypocrite is someone who says one thing and does another.

I do not believe the word wetback to be racist, nor have I said Americans or immigrants shouldn't use the word when talking about illegals from south of the border. Where have I ever said that the word wetback was racist or that anyone shouldn't use the word wetback or it's spanish equivalents?
 
Actually, we have. It's called hate speech and hate crime laws.

We do not have hate speech laws,see my previous post. Thats why Fred Phelps has not been arrested for protesting that God hates fags. Speech is not a crime.

We even have one right here over DP.

DP is not the united states. It is a political forum ran operated by what a private citizen dictated.
 
The US does not have hate speech laws and if there any it violates the 1st amendment.

Hate speech - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In some jurisdictions, notably the United States, hate speech cannot be directly regulated because of a widespread consensus that suppressing viewpoints based on content alone is outright wrong or leads to a slippery slope (that is, who is to decide what content is a priori true or correct) which ultimately destroys the marketplace of ideas. In particular, the United States government and the state governments are broadly forbidden by the First Amendment of the Constitution from restricting speech.

This is mostly true. We do have hate crime laws in the US. We do not have hate speech laws per se, but they could fall under the "fighting words" doctrine which does limit free speech.
Fighting words - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, see Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire for the relevant case law.
Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This doctrine could be used as precedence for hate speech.


I do not believe the word wetback to be racist, nor have I said Americans or immigrants shouldn't use the word when talking about illegals from south of the border. Where have I ever said that the word wetback was racist or that anyone shouldn't use the word wetback or it's spanish equivalents?

Your belief does not alter the word's definition.
 
This thread is disgusting:(

H, I lost my respect for you and am sure you do not care:roll:
 
This is mostly true. We do have hate crime laws in the US. We do not have hate speech laws per se, but they could fall under the "fighting words" doctrine which does limit free speech.
Fighting words - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, see Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire for the relevant case law.
Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This doctrine could be used as precedence for hate speech.

This would probably be used to precedence against hate speech,I don't think those nazis were having a bake sale or anything like that.

National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
he Illinois Supreme Court sympathized with the Skokie residents, but decided that the swastika could not be banned since war protesters could wear black armbands (Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District).

Decision of the Court

The United States Supreme Court let the Illinois decision stand.

[edit] Effect of the decision

In the summer of 1978, the Nazis finally held three rallies, but not in Skokie. All were in the Chicago area: Lincolnwood (near Skokie), the downtown Chicago Federal Center, and Marquette Park on the city's Southwest side. It's said that the national attention brought on by the Supreme Court case gave them enough press coverage as to make a Skokie rally redundant.

Also as a response to the court's decision, Holocaust survivors set up a museum on Main Street to commemorate the people who died in the genocide.

[edit] Significance

The Skokie case shows that the First Amendment not only protects the views that most citizens support, but also unpopular beliefs. The First Amendment makes possible what Justice Holmes called "a marketplace of ideas" where all views can be expressed whether they were popular or not.


Your belief does not alter the word's definition.


Actually webster dictionary supports my position that it is not a racial slur while the word nigger is.

wetback - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
wet·back Listen to the pronunciation of wetback
Pronunciation:
\ˈwet-ˌbak\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
from the practice of wading or swimming the Rio Grande where it forms the U.S.-Mexico border
Date:
1929

usually offensive : a Mexican who enters the United States illegally




nigger - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
but, except in sense 3, it is otherwise a word expressive of racial hatred and bigotry.
 
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Do you think referring to someone as "Negroid" in a discussion of races etc is "racist" - or does lack of recognizing current social correctness make it racist?

MY BF is Native American, but is not offended by "Indian" and says that is commonly how Native Americans refer to each other.
 
Actually webster dictionary supports my position that it is not a racial slur while the word nigger is.

wetback - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
wet·back Listen to the pronunciation of wetback
Pronunciation:
\ˈwet-ˌbak\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
from the practice of wading or swimming the Rio Grande where it forms the U.S.-Mexico border
Date:
1929

usually offensive : a Mexican who enters the United States illegally




nigger - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
but, except in sense 3, it is otherwise a word expressive of racial hatred and bigotry.

Did you read what you just posted or are you flat out lying? What does it say just before "a Mexican who enters the US illegally"? USUALLY OFFENSIVE. You understand that correct? From your own definition.

But here, from Wikipedia:
Wetback is a derogatory term for a person who has immigrated illegally to the United States. Commonly referring to Mexicans who have crossed the border illegally, the term originated with those who entered Texas by crossing the Rio Grande, presumably by swimming or wading across and getting his or her back wet in the process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetback_(slur)

But remember. At DP it is a racial slur and against the rules. So, not only are you wrong, globally, but, here, it can net you consequences.
 
Do you think referring to someone as "Negroid" in a discussion of races etc is "racist" - or does lack of recognizing current social correctness make it racist?

I wouldn't necessarily say it was racist, (that'd depend on the context) but there's other terms that can be used that don't have as much of a dodgy history. "Black", for example.

Bonnie1988 said:
MY BF is Native American, but is not offended by "Indian" and says that is commonly how Native Americans refer to each other.

Different members of different groups are okay with different labels. I've no problem being called a Scot (the accurate term for a Scottish person), but being called a "Jock" annoys me because it's generally used as an insult by the English. A lot of what makes language acceptable depends on the history of it's usage and the context in which it's used.
 
Have you ever been to "the North"? What part of the geographical United States does that term even encompass?

Good point. This is why I think it's incorrect for people to make blanket generalizations like "The South" is more racist than "The North" or vice versa. I'm sure that race relations are much better in New York City than they are in Mississippi and Arkansas. On the other hand, there is an enormous amount of racism in Ohio and Michigan that seems largely absent from southern places like
Virginia and North Carolina.
 
Did you read what you just posted or are you flat out lying? What does it say just before "a Mexican who enters the US illegally"? USUALLY OFFENSIVE. You understand that correct? From your own definition.


Offensive doesn't make a word racist. Peple find the word "retarded" offensive,it doesn't mean that it is racist.And if you read the rest of the definition you would know that it refers to "mexicans who enter the US illegally". Its a geographical and action specified term not a racist or ethnic term. Its no different than saying people who live in hurricane prone areas are ****ing retarded inconsiderate morons.It doesn't label all people, just the ones who do a particular action.

At DP it is a racial slur and against the rules.

DP is political site dictated by the rules of a private individual,if that individual wishes to cave into political correctness out of some irrational fear of being labeled a racist or hate monger or go along with that political correctness to appease some political correct nuts then that is his business. It doesn't actually make the word a racial slur.
 
I wouldn't necessarily say it was racist, (that'd depend on the context) but there's other terms that can be used that don't have as much of a dodgy history. "Black", for example.



Different members of different groups are okay with different labels. I've no problem being called a Scot (the accurate term for a Scottish person), but being called a "Jock" annoys me because it's generally used as an insult by the English. A lot of what makes language acceptable depends on the history of it's usage and the context in which it's used.

I agree. If a term is generally used or known to be perceived as a slur then it shouldn't be used.
 
I agree. If a term is generally used or known to be perceived as a slur then it shouldn't be used.

That about sums it up for me.


There is just no need or reason to call people by those names so I cannot even understand this arguement. Even if everyone all agreed nigger was not racist, why would you even call a black person that?
 
I agree. If a term is generally used or known to be perceived as a slur then it shouldn't be used.

I'm fine with it being used, so long as the person doesn't try to pretend it isn't a slur.

Hell, I've been called a spudnigger and I'll admit... I laughed.
 
It's not racist because it's not aimed at a race of people.

Wetback by definition is not aimed at a race of people either. Mexico is not a race nor is the term by definition applied to all Mexicans. It is applied to those who violate our immigration laws(see websters dictionary),just like the term illegal,except the term wetback is more specific on the location that the illegals are from.
 
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I'm fine with it being used, so long as the person doesn't try to pretend it isn't a slur.

Hell, I've been called a spudnigger and I'll admit... I laughed.

Whats that half Irish and half black or black Irish,someone in Idaho? My friends used to joke that their children were niggaspikawoods.Both the parents were biracial,one was white and black and the other was white and hispanic.
 
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Whats that half Irish and half black or black Irish,someone in Idaho? My friends used to joke that their children were niggaspikawoods.Both the parents were biracial,one was white and black and the other was white and hispanic.

It's actually just Irish, who were often called "The niggers of Europe" in the 1800's. A black dude was the first person I ever heard say that one.

I think a 1/2 black 1/2 irish person is calle da McNigger.

A McNigger with Cheese is if that person lives in Wisconsin or has Gonorreah.



My buddy is polish and his wife is Mexican and they are having their first child and he says that it sucks that his kid is going to be so stupid that he's gonna swim BACK to Mexico. :lol:
 
Ok, I'm gonna chime in here. I'm gonna skip back a few pages because I have been absent from class the past few days.

First, 1099, Austin DOES rock. I lived there many years. Round Rock too. I lived off of Wm Cannon and North Lamar. Viva la 6th street! That's the coolest part of Texas IMO. But I also love East Texas, The Valley, Corpus, All of the Gulf Coast, Garner State park area.... damn, I'm homesick. :(

Yes, Texas is in "the south" and that's a geographical fact that cannot be spun. They have their "southern" roots and confederate sympathies. BUT... Jallman is kinda right in a way. Texas is the Lone Star state. It stands alone. It might have become a state of the union, but even still today, the Native Texans, such as myself, view ourselves as Texan's first, American's/Southerners/Whatever, second.

Texas IS a free and independant state, subject ONLY to the constitution of the United States. Not the president, not the congress, not any other state or political body. Thus the "Lone Star State" label.

In regards to racism. I was Texas born and bred. I have seen racism up close and personal. There is no shortage of racism in Texas. From both sides of the spectrum. BUT, it pales in comparison to the racism I have observed, living up here in the north, the past 21 years.

It's hard to explain. It's a different kind of racism. But it's racism.
 
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There's definitely racism up north. It's more insideous and it isn't as obvious, but it's there.

I think that there is racism all over the country still, but it's getting better all the time.
 
It's how slurry-ass antebellum Southerners said "negro".
"Negro", of course, = "black" in spanish (and possibly portuguese; I don't know for sure, although I know the two languages are similar) and was once the accepted term of the day for black people.

That's why it is racist.
The history of southerners and "negros" is too ugly.

Yes, it was Southerners that "invented" the word nigger, but actions speak louder than words. While Northerners typically berated the South for their treatement of blacks, they used red-lining to keep blacks out of white neighborhoods. And guess where the largest Klan organization was located? Mississippi? No. Indiana. Like I said, actions speak louder than words.
 
By my personal observations, racism up north stretches beyond the black/white thing. Hell, here in the city where I live, I have witnessed the Germans berate the Polish, Serbians just act like assholes to everybody, Mexican's are looked upon as "niggers" by just about everybody. Jews keep amongst themselves, and anyone from the south is treated like a Beverly Hillbilly. There are so many sub-cultures here that place themselves above any other culture, it's like a prejudice stew.

Keep in mind, however, I speak only in the most general of terms. There are cool people every where ya go. (Those are the one's I hang with. I'm prejudice that way. ;) )
 
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